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3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
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Author:  RichFish [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
Hello, all! This is my first game that I am submitting for review. Below are a few of the areas that I am concerned about with this game in particular.

1) I am black in this game. This was the first game that I have played with a handicap on IGS (3 stones). I was against a 15k+ player. (Not sure if + is better or worse in IGS's ranking system.

2) I feel that I was thwarted in several fights. Perhaps these blunders were caused by attempting to hold onto too much territory, leading to loose moves? I'm not entirely sure. I also did not read thoroughly enough: I need to take a bit more time to plan my moves, I think. I'm never running out of time in my games.

3) I'm not sure as to the strength of my direction of play in this game, and I'm sure that if I fumbled my direction in this game the same issue will pop up in others.

4) I feel that I probably got caught up in trying to win local fights instead of taking big plays elsewhere. Where would these plays be? When are they best taken?

5) (Small note, I was so embarassed.) Move 246 was a misclick. I meant to play it one space to the left. Considering the game was decided by 2.5 points, these little embarassments add up.

6) (Extra small note) For some reason my SGFs get saved upside down from IGS. Is there an easy way to fix this?



Attachments:
Game4L.sgf [1.79 KiB]
Downloaded 590 times
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
Wecome, RichFish :)

A few comments that I think will be helpful. :)
Author:  Shawn Ligocki [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
Hi RichFish. I must warn you that I am only 8-10k, so do not trust my comment too much, but I think I can give you some that will help.

Overall notes:

1) Play simpler Joseki. Your initial approach was a disaster. I think this is because you chose a Joseki which is very complicated and leads to fighting early on. I would suggest sticking to the simple Joseki. No need for complication.
2) Play more solidly in general. You were ahead in territory for most of the game, but left so many weaknesses that White was able to exploit them and just barely win. If you are ahead, play more solid moves that leave less cuts. They may cost you a few points, but they will pay off in strength.
3) Play lightly with your weak groups. You had a weak group at the end of the opening Joseki and you made it very heavy by playing many stones right next to it. This both makes it a bigger target for White to attack, makes it harder to run away and to make things worse, you played moves which reduced your own liberties and made White stronger.
4) Don't let your stones die. You let your initial attacking group die, but you could have saved it easily. Be careful.
5) Learn the Monkey Jump, it is a very nice way to get 10 points in endgame!

On the plus side:

1) You did a great job of building influence on the left.
2) You punished White very effectively for his goofy plays after the 3-3 invasion.

Detailed comments in attached SGF.



Attachments:
Game4L.sgf [7.76 KiB]
Downloaded 576 times
Author:  EdLee [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Rich, Listen to Bill.
With apologies to Shawn -- some of Shawn's shapes and variations are (quite) wrong.

Listen to Bill. :)
Author:  Shawn Ligocki [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi Rich, Listen to Bill.
With apologies to Shawn -- some of Shawn's shapes and variations are (quite) wrong.

Listen to Bill. :)


Oh gosh, that's embarrassing. Sorry for the misleading information! But do you think you could point out specifically some of my flaws? That would be a great help to me, and maybe I can stop spreading misinformation!

Thanks!
Author:  ez4u [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi Rich, Listen to Bill.
With apologies to Shawn -- some of Shawn's shapes and variations are (quite) wrong.

Listen to Bill. :)

What a shockingly rude and unnecessary comment! IMHO you should apologize and bite your tongue (or fingers). Shawn clearly identified his level and stated his 'take it for what it's worth'. He covers many areas that Bill doesn't and many of his comments should be very helpful to the OP.
Author:  Splatted [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
A few comments on the first 30ish moves.
Author:  EdLee [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:17 am ]
Post subject: 
No, Dave, I disagree with you this time. I stand by what I wrote.
Author:  Splatted [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
@Ed: Your comment may have been accurate in a literal sense but it was still inappropriate. Not only does it go without saying that a kyu player's comments are likely to contain mistakes but Shawn even began his post by saying so, and your comment makes it seem as if his review should be ignored in order to avoid being mislead when it actually contains a lot of useful points. A sdk's mistakes are still likely to be improvements for a 17kyu so why shoot someone down for trying to help? You may discourage him from making the effort next time and RichFish may miss out on what he could have learned this time.

P.s. Pro advice is that we should not only learn from pros but also form study groups with other learners. Learning isn't just about drilling correct play into your brain.
Author:  mitsun [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
RichFish, you are probably overloaded with advice by now, so let me keep it simple and make just one big point. [sarcasm alert] Please pay attention to these comments and disregard inferior advice from everyone else [/sarcasm alert] (Actually, read Splatted comments, they are very important.)

:b20: was a major crossroad in the game. If you played this move by reflex (save the stone in atari), the single biggest thing you can learn from this game is to control that reflex and consider other options. I am not saying that the game move was wrong, just that it was a critical decision point. Here are the two branches in the road:

1) Save the stone. The value in saving the stone is that it is a cutting stone, separating the W stone at P13 from the main W group. At the same time, P13 is a cutting stone, separating the B stone at P14 from the rest of the B group, so W will save this stone. This sort of mutual cut creates weak groups and initiates a large scale fight, which will probably dominate the game play for many moves. Once the fight starts, each side must preserve the safety of their cutting stones or suffer a big loss.

2) Give up the stone. Simply extend to Q12 to make territory on the right side. W may then elect to capture your stone, but that gives you sente to make a big move elsewhere. (One option would be G17, to limit the effectiveness of the W ponnuki.) This alternative path is simple, since with no cuts there are no weak groups to fight and defend, and it gives an equal result, so it should at least be considered as an option.

In the game, you chose the first path, which is fine, but then you did not follow up consistently (see Splatted commentary). After move 25, the result is a disaster -- W is no longer split into two groups, two B stones have been cut off, W has massive thickness, and B has only a tiny prospective territory at the edge of the board.

Going forward from this point, the most important thing to realize about this position is that the B stones at P14 are no longer cutting stones. This is a critical point. Those stones used to be important, but now they have lost all strategic significance. They are no longer worth saving. Ignore them, banish them from your thoughts. Be happy if W invests any time or effort to capture them. Above all, do not invest further in them yourself.
Author:  RichFish [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3/4/14- Close loss, 3 stone handicap
Thank you for all the wonderful advice, everyone. I'll be attempting to put this into practice in games to come.
Author:  Shawn Ligocki [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Shawn Ligocki wrote:
EdLee wrote:
Hi Rich, Listen to Bill.
With apologies to Shawn -- some of Shawn's shapes and variations are (quite) wrong.

Listen to Bill. :)


Oh gosh, that's embarrassing. Sorry for the misleading information! But do you think you could point out specifically some of my flaws? That would be a great help to me, and maybe I can stop spreading misinformation!

Thanks!


Still interested in any specific feedback you have on my review. I'd love to know more about the bad shapes I'm making.
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