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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Capture
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:59 am 
Gosei
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Mr. Mormon wrote:
I never thought of that. Would snapback be more likely to involve ko?


What do you mean?

Snapback example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . .
$$ . . O O O .
$$ O O . X O .
$$ X X O X O .
$$ . X X O O .
$$ . . . X X .
$$ . . X . . .[/go]


Suppose black captures:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . .
$$ . . O O O .
$$ O O 1 X O .
$$ X X O X O .
$$ . X X O O .
$$ . . . X X .
$$ . . X . . .[/go]


Both the black and the white stones disappear.

Then white can take the territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . .
$$ . . O O O .
$$ O O . . O .
$$ X X 2 . O .
$$ . X X O O .
$$ . . . X X .
$$ . . X . . .[/go]


There is relatively little difference with snapback's in normal go, as the end position is the same if :b1: and :w2: are played like this. The moment the black stones are taken off just changes, which changes the size of the plays, and white can choose to ignore more easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Capture
Post #22 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Mr. Mormon wrote:
What do you think about this modification to the capture rule?


From a graph theoretic viewpoint, it destroys the nice property that a
game of Go corresponds to a simple path through the graph of all legal positions.

For example, on a 2x2 board the following simulcap
games correspond to the same simple path:

A1 A2 B1 B2 pass pass
A1 A2 B1 pass B2 pass pass

regards,
-John

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 Post subject: Re: Simultaneous Capture
Post #23 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:10 pm 
Lives with ko

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HermanHiddema wrote:
Mr. Mormon wrote:
It seems to me that sekis would be less common because in the most common type, the player with less stones would break it. It would force an area to be re-resolved, lengthening the game, but perhaps making the moves leading to capture boring? Ko might be the only way to make a seki.


You would get sekis with a single shared liberty, because neither player is willing to make the capture. Making the capture allows the other player to play first in that area, and probably more points. Example:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -------------
$$ . X O X X O .
$$ . X O . X O .
$$ . X O O X O .
$$ . X X X O O .[/go]


It does not matter who simul-captures, the resulting position will be the same:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -------------
$$ . X . . . O .
$$ . X . a . O .
$$ . X . . . O .
$$ . X X X O O .[/go]


In this position, it is obvious that the player who gets to play at a will be better off locally.

Therefore, neither player is willing to capture in the original diagram. :)



How common is seki with same number of stones? If one has many less stones in the seki, he would want to break it. Then you get a bizarre dame filling area.

Corners would be a lot different too. But why take the time to study it when I could study the real game?

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