Life In 19x19 :: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong

Hwang Inseong, ex-insei:

"I never heard about that EGC system. they want to change it from Tampere?
of course it's bad, I hope it works as before. why they want to separate championship? even if they separate the top group and become european best player, people will not agree that they are 'best' player :-p "

There are no separate tournaments this year, just same kind of main tournament as previous years

I would like to know what breakfast has told to the Koreans and what he asked from them? ... only 1 Korean player coming to this years Congress

Are these questions the reason there is only 1 Korean player coming to this years Congress (http://www.egc2010.fi/registered.php?sort=5)? There are no separate tournaments this year, just same kind of main tournament as previous years or have I missed something?

Main reason: very small prizes in Groningen last year.
Also, no information available about prizes in Tampere. In every event in Korea they announce prizes in advance and only EGC it is usually a big secret

Top Korean amateurs are interested in big prizes, of course!

But as long as you expect the prices to be payed out of the pockets of the other congress participants who have no chance to win then I think you should be happy there are any prices as all.

If the congress fees are raised to raise prizes for top winners, it is fair enough that their so far too voluntary teaching becomes more mandatory though.

Have you not noticed that in the world of Go returning teaching because of having received teaching is common?

We have only 1 Korean registered for EGC-2010 so far

Author:	breakfast [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:32 am ]
Post subject:	Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Hwang Inseong, ex-insei: "I never heard about that EGC system. they want to change it from Tampere? of course it's bad, I hope it works as before. why they want to separate championship? even if they separate the top group and become european best player, people will not agree that they are 'best' player :-p "

Author:	kokomi [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
breakfast wrote: Hwang Inseong, ex-insei: "I never heard about that EGC system. they want to change it from Tampere? of course it's bad, I hope it works as before. why they want to separate championship? even if they separate the top group and become european best player, people will not agree that they are 'best' player :-p " When did people agree that the European Champion is the 'best' player? I truely looking forward the day coming.

Author:	Diabolic [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
I would like to know what breakfast has told to the Koreans and what he asked from them? All I can find here are some replies. The wording of this answer ("of course it's bad") suggests that the question has been biased. Are these questions the reason there is only 1 Korean player coming to this years Congress (http://www.egc2010.fi/registered.php?sort=5)? There are no separate tournaments this year, just same kind of main tournament as previous years or have I missed something?

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Diabolic wrote: There are no separate tournaments this year, just same kind of main tournament as previous years Exactly. *** Of course, the European Championship does not determine the world's strongest player. (Not yet...)

Author:	karaklis [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Diabolic wrote: I would like to know what breakfast has told to the Koreans and what he asked from them? ... only 1 Korean player coming to this years Congress Obviously he scared them off. OTOH there are about 70 players from Japan. That's pretty cool

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Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=759	Page 1 of 2

Author:	breakfast [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Diabolic wrote: Are these questions the reason there is only 1 Korean player coming to this years Congress (http://www.egc2010.fi/registered.php?sort=5)? There are no separate tournaments this year, just same kind of main tournament as previous years or have I missed something? Main reason: very small prizes in Groningen last year. Also, no information available about prizes in Tampere. In every event in Korea they announce prizes in advance and only EGC it is usually a big secret Top Korean amateurs are interested in big prizes, of course!

Author:	Mcgreag [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
breakfast wrote: Main reason: very small prizes in Groningen last year. Also, no information available about prizes in Tampere. In every event in Korea they announce prizes in advance and only EGC it is usually a big secret Top Korean amateurs are interested in big prizes, of course! How many of these korean events have no big sponsor? If you can get some big corporation to sponsor all the prices I am sure they could be both of adequate level and announced in good time. But as long as you expect the prices to be payed out of the pockets of the other congress participants who have no chance to win then I think you should be happy there are any prices as all. This is not poker where a large number of people will pay a large fee because they seriously think they have a chance of winning. You suggestion that super group players pay a larger fee is interesting but that system would not make it possible to announce prices in advance either so that would not help you get more koreans here.

Author:	LovroKlc [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
The entary fee is really big so the prizes should also be bigger.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Mcgreag wrote: But as long as you expect the prices to be payed out of the pockets of the other congress participants who have no chance to win then I think you should be happy there are any prices as all. They get to play stronger opponents in some of their tournament games and teaching. Currently scheduled teaching is done by Asian guests; something the top Europeans could do themselves; for the pupils it should matter little though whether their congress fee's fraction used for top winners' prize moneys is compensated by their teaching or by supposedly equally valuable teaching by Asian professionals. Currently some top Europeans give some personal free game reviewing to those asking them; e.g., breakfast and I did so; there could be more usage of such personal reviewing. ALA the relation between lost extra congress fee fraction and got teaching is reasonably balanced, then why would the ordinary congress participants object to pay that little more, which they actually already do? Asked contrarily: Would you want to cut the extra congress fee fraction while the top Europeans ended their (seemingly) free and often voluntary teaching? If the congress fees are raised to raise prizes for top winners, it is fair enough that their so far too voluntary teaching becomes more mandatory though.

Author:	topazg [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
RobertJasiek wrote: If the congress fees are raised to raise prizes for top winners, it is fair enough that their so far too voluntary teaching becomes more mandatory though. This is a joke? You are stating that for having a big prize fund in a tournament, the tournament winner must be prepared to do free teaching - What sort of system is this?

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Maybe you have a different opinion and think that 3 hours mandatory teaching were out of the question. I think it is possible. Have you not noticed that in the world of Go returning teaching because of having received teaching is common?

Author:	topazg [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
RobertJasiek wrote: Have you not noticed that in the world of Go returning teaching because of having received teaching is common? Yes. However, I have not noticed Go tournament prizes being conditional on the winner providing free teaching.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Not only the winner but every "top" player is the idea. (During some Ing Cups, such had to be signed by the players. I recall an Ing Cup in Sinaia, where I had to sign such.)

Author:	richardamullens [ Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
breakfast wrote: Main reason: very small prizes in Groningen last year. Also, no information available about prizes in Tampere. In every event in Korea they announce prizes in advance and only EGC it is usually a big secret Top Korean amateurs are interested in big prizes, of course! I wonder if a part of the reason was that the tournament was held in a swish hotel ? Not only does that diminish the prize fund but it will also cause the less affluent players not to attend - or be accommodated in camp sites far from the venue. Big tournaments with cheap and cheerful accommodation are better value for money and more fun. I wish that this could be emphasised to the organisers of these events.

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Author:	breakfast [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
We have only 1 Korean registered for EGC-2010 so far

Author:	tj86430 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
breakfast wrote: We have only 1 Korean registered for EGC-2010 so far Two actually.

Author:	kokomi [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
breakfast wrote: We have only 1 Korean registered for EGC-2010 so far You have many Japanese.

Author:	Diabolic [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
If Koreans are interested in prizes, this years congress is a bit late in providing that information. Best I could find is 5k€ for Europeans (viewtopic.php?p=16217#p16217), looks like non-europeans get warm handshake and "see you all next year speech". Is this normal for EGC that the prize money is not revealed before the congress starts (less than a week now, most people like to plan a bit more ahead)? What I recall reading from last year, they didn't announce any prizes before the prize giving or did I miss something again? Perhaps people organizing the next congress in France can learn from this year and provide the information a bit earlier.

Author:	Bantari [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
breakfast wrote: Main reason: very small prizes in Groningen last year. Also, no information available about prizes in Tampere. In every event in Korea they announce prizes in advance and only EGC it is usually a big secret Top Korean amateurs are interested in big prizes, of course! On a separate topic (and putting my foot in my mouth again): So maybe this can put to rest the whole discussion about no Asians/Koreans showing up for the ECongress if the top Europeans play in separate competition. Since the above seems to suggest they are more interested in money than in playing the Euro-elite. So, organize the open tournament with regular prizes, all Koreans can play and enjoy the money, and the Closed Championship for Euro-elite however you/they like. And even if the events are separate, strong Asians will show up, no worries, provided the money is there. As a matter of fact, all the lower-ranked people who scream about 'discrimination' and 'ruining' the Congress for lack of strong Asians if the top Europeans play separately - they might all be the winners and get to play more games against the strong Asians. So they should support the idea of separate tournament instead of making fuss. Its a win-win scenario!

Author:	Harleqin [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Koreans about EGC: Hwang Inseong
Just taking some wild guesses, I think that several factors might contribute to low attendance by strong Koreans: certain people spreading the rumour that there were plans underway to more or less exclude them from the interesting parts of the main tournament, low prizes in the last year, lack of prize announcements, economic crisis, late registration.