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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #161 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 2:01 am 
Judan

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A few comments on the start of the first game
- move 8 "How would I answer double approach?" Well for starters I wouldn't play the 3 space pincer (but a tighter one or knight move answer), though that's not a problem at your level. Which side to attach (or kosumi) after double approaches is a complicated topic, and the advice has changed over time. It used to be the advice to attach to the non-pincered stone as that is stronger, aiming to build up strength to swallow up the pincered stone. However with quite a lot of the pincers this actually leads to a locally unsatisfactory shape, so the trend nowadays is to attach to the pincered stone. The kosumi often leads to a slack shape, it is perhaps most often seen when you want to take sente.
- move 10. 3-3 is an okay answer, the idea being it is the key point for a base for white (not really a base for black as approached both sides) so you aim to let one white group settle and gobble up the other. However you need to be careful to maintain miai of doing something good on one side or the other, if white manages to settle both sides you will be sad. C is no good, white should just take the stone. Notice how when he does he ends up with a stone at b18 so is already connected to f17. Black would cut off c14 in gote, but c14 still has a lot of aji and e15 would be inefficient. B is actually close to a good move, namely d13. This connects your corner to the wide pincer stone, making influence which would help with a left/centre/lower side moyo. If white then played 3-3 you would not block at d17, but tenuki or press again at g16 for more influence.
- move 12. A looks ok, but I don't know the best way to cover the cut after. C sucks.
- move 15. You need to be clear what your miai are for doing mean things to either white on the left or top side. If after this connect you don't have 2 good moves it is wrong.
- move 17. Too slow. Can you surround white with f11? That's the problem with the loose pincer, there isn't a convincing surround/attack here. A move like c12 would deny white a base here, but the problem is it is inefficient with the pincer stone already there.
- move 18 white is very slow and heavy too, should get out.
- move 20. Seeing as white's last move was so heavy, maybe this is ok. If you surround with f11 white can make a base with c13 but it is cramped. B is not so good, it just forces white to run out and doesn't gain much for you as white already extended on the top side (unless you can play L17 to attack well). Always think how you can get profit when attacking. All this problems come from the looseness of the pincer, which is why I would seriously consider d13 for move 11.


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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #162 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 12:37 pm 
Lives with ko

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Thank you for your comments @all.
@Uberdude I thought loose pincer suits well for this situation since i got a shimari at bottom side. I remember it from "becoming 9 kyu" lessons in Baduk TV, but prolly i'm wrong. I remember "monkey sees monkey does" as i remember Kageyama's saying for amateurs trying to imitate professionals:) I also lost track of my attack while trying to harass white as you mentioned and gained little at left side.
@Edlee Thank you for indicating my mistake for trying to punish his C18! That's really enlightening. I feel obliged to "punish" his mistake by doing something asap. He can settle easily with another move at the corner so I'll keep that in mind for the next games.
@skydyr Thanks for detailed review!
@ez4u I did not know about the Kobayashi & Q13, thanks for teaching me that.

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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #163 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:06 pm 
Lives with ko

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Today was the tournament day 1. I have managed to won all 3 games.
First one with 20+points because my opponent missed a vital point and i killed her group. Otherwise she were ahead.
Second one she made a huge moyo with huge thickness. I managed to live inside and barely win by 3.5 points.
Third game he was a strange opponent always playing on 4th line territory, I again barely snatched the win by 3.5 points.

Two more games tomorrow, but I'm really exhausted, 7 hours of playing only 3 games.

I got 2 questions about game 3; I did not recall all of the game. I was White.



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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #164 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:37 pm 
Lives with ko

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1st game as i remember; I was Black.


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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #165 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:48 pm 
Lives with ko

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KGS: Wretched, Secil, PlaySlow
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Game 2 as far as i remember. I felt very lucky winning this game.. I was White.


Game 2 after a while: http://imgur.com/Hq7GtYo


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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #166 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:53 pm 
Oza
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My answers, to be taken with that grain of salt



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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #167 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:02 pm 
Lives with ko

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KGS: Wretched, Secil, PlaySlow
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Knotwilg wrote:
My answers, to be taken with that grain of salt

Thank you for the review as always Knotwilg!
I choose K15 in the real game and also used the aji of the O15 cutting stone to make an area at the center:) I do not remember the exact sequence but it worked:)
Couldn't invade bottom though. He keep trying to kill my groups, i tenuki'ed at the slightest oppurtunity to take the big endgame points and won.

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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #168 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:06 pm 
Tengen

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First game: O2 punishes itself. It is small, and doesn't really provide much of a base. Most likely, White will either come under attack later, or end up with an inefficient shape.

Move 31 is too easy going. I think B works nicely, with L3 after the crosscut. Frankly, it's hard for me to read, but if you're not prepared to fight in a situation like this, you probably can't play J4 to begin with.

Move 78, I think you can play M18 without fear.

Move 86, you can try the 3-3 point. It usually works against the one space jump and kick. I get fuzzy if White plays the empty triangle, however.

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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #169 Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:48 am 
Lives with ko

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I have "managed" to lose against a 6 kyu EGF by overseeing his dead group:( That is a result of stress I believe, somehow my pulse is around 100 before the game:) I could not understand how i can miss such an easy kill. He was in very bad shape after entering my chinese formation directly. I will share the game as I remember when I got home.

5th game was against a young 8 kyu, easiest match of all because he is not reading anything and trying to invade every small territory I have. So I had many walls while he's trying to live small. I have won with ease.

So as a total 4 win 1 losses (2 wins against 7 kyu, 2 wins against 8 kyu). But it was a great overall experience and helped me to overcome rankedphobia since from now on I'll train for tournaments only.

My new short term goal is to become 5 kyu in KGS till July 18th. I'll finish Jump Level Up 3 & 4 & 5 till July 18th as well as 30 minutes L&D everyday. I'll play 4 slow games/week as usual.

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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #170 Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 9:59 pm 
Lives with ko

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4th game;

I can also choose not to attack for the kill and go for profit by playing B21 at P8.



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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #171 Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:01 am 
Oza
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Not much to say here except that 38 is a bizarre move by the opponent, due to misreading the ladder which is already broken by the atari. And your "missed A" is a nice tesuji, good you know it, you'll apply it.


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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #172 Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:33 am 
Lives with ko

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Another game of mine. There are two things I am having trouble right now;
* Playing too fast without reading after tournament [I can limit myself doing it, no problem. I have done this before]
* Having no idea against too many weak groups (invasions everywhere) of my opponent in general. I feel like they make basic fundamental mistakes but somehow i could not punish them.. There is an ugly example below.




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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #173 Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 11:46 am 
Honinbo

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Some comments. :)



When attacking:

1) In general, get in front. Don't push from behind. Especially don't push the toothpaste.

2) Take away or reduce the opponent's eye potential.

3) Plays to contain are not, in general, plays to kill.

4) Avoid strengthening the opponent. In the bottom right, you did make a play to attack the opponent's eye potential, but before that you strengthened the opponent's group.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Thu May 19, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #174 Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:02 pm 
Lives with ko

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Thank you for your comments Bill, I've made many mistakes in fighting situations as I understand. I'll try to practice these kind of situations more. I'll also try capping. I generally do not use it. Finally I'll pay attention to his eyes and eye shapes if he can make eyes or not (The bottom left corner)

Bill Spight wrote:
Some comments. :)

When attacking:

1) In general, get in front. Don't push from behind. Especially don't push the toothpaste.

2) Take away or reduce the opponent's eye potential.

3) Plays to contain are not, in general, plays to kill.

4) Avoid strengthening the opponent. In the bottom right, you did make a play to attack the opponent's eye potential, but before that you strengthened the opponent's group.

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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #175 Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 4:49 pm 
Lives in gote

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Attacking is good, but what you ultimately need is territory. The primary reason attacking is good is because it provides a way to naturally take territory (while keeping your opponent busy making defensive moves).

For :w30: P3 is the most natural territorial attacking move. It would be hard to find a better example of the proverb "make territory while attacking". Your other suggestions are also good, but not nearly as direct.

After :b43: these two B stones are still very weak, but it is no longer obvious how to make territory while attacking them. Your suggested strategy would make a loose wall, but how would that wall produce territory? The capping move suggested by Bill is a much stronger local attack, but assuming B manages to survive, where does W get territory from this attack?

This might be a good time to tenuki and simply start taking big points elsewhere. As you build up strength, the capping attack may become a real threat, and meanwhile if B plays another few defensive moves around here, you do not really mind, as he will not be making territory for himself and he will not be destroying any of your territory. Playing C9 or D10 would be another idea, moderately large territorially, while also continuing to weaken the B stones below.

The :b47: invasion at R8 looks like an overplay, but expecting to kill this stone is probably unreasonable. The general principle here is to attack from the weak side, pushing your opponent toward your stronger stones. That way you get to strengthen your weaker group, while giving your opponent no weaknesses to exploit. In this position, P5 is sente for W, so the lower W stones form a perfect wall. The strongest shape move would be Q9, putting huge pressure on B. Try playing out some sequences starting there. You should be able to keep the B group enclosed and either kill it or force it to make a very small life in gote, while you make territory above and maybe also to the left. Your suggested move "C" is a similar idea, but less severe.

:w74: at E2 would be another perfect example of taking territory while attacking. Your move E8 looks like an attempt to kill. Of course this wins if you succeed in killing, but if you fail to kill this stone ends up nearly useless. After taking E2, it is likely that you will get to play additional useful attacking moves around C8 and G11, while letting B escape.


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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #176 Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:18 pm 
Lives with ko

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Thank you for the comments Mitsun, it's most helpful. Especially even not trying to kill but to attack at his R8 kinda opened my eyes. Even killing that 1 stone is hard so I understood I should just attack for the profit. I'll try to put that in use in today's games.

By the way there is another game that I failed to execute well in the direction of play or as general board strategy. I felt my general playstyle is changing and going away from basics because I wanted to win. For example if i use my thickness to take territory in my level, i could win easily, but I'm aware in the long run it will become a burden for my improvement. I should give less importance to win/loss and try to improve by playing well.



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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #177 Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:28 pm 
Honinbo

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mitsun wrote:
After :b43: these two B stones are still very weak, but it is no longer obvious how to make territory while attacking them. Your suggested strategy would make a loose wall, but how would that wall produce territory? The capping move suggested by Bill is a much stronger local attack, but assuming B manages to survive, where does W get territory from this attack?


The most likely place is on the right side, if Black pushes through towards the right. As the play in the game went, White enlarged his right side framework, but if Black had jumped again with :b47:, his running group would have worked with the Black stones on the top and left, turning a liability into an asset. It is also possible that the attack would strengthen White in the center and reduce the potential of Black's framework.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #178 Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 12:49 pm 
Lives with ko

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Another game and questions about early/mid game. I was very lucky at the end.



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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #179 Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 1:41 pm 
Lives with ko

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Just reviewed the game again.
At :w50: i should have gone R2, this is the normal sequence i think.
At :b67: if he played L15, it would be bad for my gameplan, just noticed it.
At :w88: I believe if i played M18 - O19 - M19, I could have killed top.
At :w90: i should hvae gone for L6, am I right?

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 Post subject: Re: PlaySlow
Post #180 Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 3:57 pm 
Oza
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Highlights:

189 - Losing move. Black is insecure about the L&D situation and doesn't see the danger
152 - White misses an opportunity to make an exchange and control the damage. Black takes the lead
90 - an interesting problem of direction of play. White should build here and not reduce I think. After that, both players seem confused and embark on rather uncoordinated fighting. I refer to the comments.
58 - A greedy move which at this point doesn't make much use of the influence
42 & 44 - mistakes in direction. White should play from weak towards strong.
40 - a huge move. White leads
22 - pincer is wrong direction
6 - pincer is good direction

Edit: 58 & 90 are conflicting comments. I request help.

Full review:



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