Seven stones

Boidhre · **#21**

More usual:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . W 5 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sorry, I didn't spot :w6:

being out of place.

Thimblefox · **#22**

Before I joined IGS, I looked up the ranking system on Sensei's Library, and came to the conclusion that if I assumed my rank was 15k on KGS at best, I should set myself as BC on IGS. First I found that the BC's were just too weak, so I played a few people who were 17k?, I defeated most of them as well. The following match I played, was against someone who was 17k+, and so I realized that perhaps Sensei's Library hasn't gotten this right after all. :lol:

I usually play on IGS with my cell phone around midday while my daughter sleeps in her baby carriage. So I haven't been too picky with opponents. I have about an hour of playtime before she wakes up. Anyways, I'm wondering when I'll get a fixed rank, and I hope I'm not going to get placed totally absurdly because I've messed everything up with the ranking system. My profile on IGS says "9 wins 1 losses (rating 4 matches) / 17k? (0 points)".

I assume this means that out of these 10 matches, 4 of them were rated, but I can't figure out why. I mean, aren't matches between two BC players rated either? But even excluding the BC games, I still have 7 games, all against normal opponents. But somehow 3 of those games weren't rated then.. :scratch:

And the system doesn't tell me which games were rated either. It's sort of confusing. :grumpy:

As for the game file, at move 213 I say that "A looks better", I mean that move 213 at A would be better.

Knotwilg · **#23**

Hi

Despite a mistake in the beginning, you completely outplayed your opponent and this is a game to be proud of. In particular:

- you built a strategic advantage despite the initial tactical loss
- you cut his groups
- you kept his groups eyeless
- you never made any big mistake anymore despite the pressure of winning a won game

these are all goodies to take with you

In what follows, I'll point out some technical issues which will become important as you play better opponents, with most importantly

15: cut
47: reduce liberties
71: fantastic strategic thinking
95 & 159: empty triangles are very often worse than local alternatives

Knotwilg (kw)

topazg · **#24**

Most important thing to pick up on really is one of the most basic and fundamental Go principles - keep yourself connected, keep your opponent's groups separated (when his groups are independently weak) - and remember the value of sente. If he's threatening to catch an unimportant stone on the edge, it's probably not big enough to care about.

Thimblefox · **#25**

Knotwilg wrote:

95 & 159: empty triangles are very often worse than local alternatives

This was such an eye opener, I never think about empty triangles when it comes to bigger groups. :bow:

Thimblefox · **#26**

Also what you both said about the group at move 45 was very instructive. And for my next game I'll keep an eye out for empty triangles (if I fail to do so during the game itself then at least during the review :study:

)

Thimblefox · **#27**

So IGS has decided that I'm 14k? and not 17k? after I won a game by accident (opponent disconnected and didn't return). These two were a lot more challenging, and I was kind of daunted. But if I just take care to try to make my groups live, I don't think I'm on that uneven ground.

EdLee · **#28**

Hi Thimblefox,

About empty triangles, may I suggest the next time you are about to play one,
pause. Stop. For at least one minute. 60 seconds.
Take some deep breaths. See if you can find a better move.
( In some cases, you cannot; in some special situations, the empty triangle is an excellent move. )
But quite often, there is at least one better local move.

Knotwilg · **#29**

Hi

Don't give up just because you are disappointed. Continue until it really looks like a big loss and you can calmly accept it.

This game is much worse than the one previously discussed. There are quite a few moves that seem nonsensical. So, can you explain what you thought when playing and what you now think of:

47
49
51
55
111
119
121
127
129

In your own analysis, you make a few good points though, so you probably played way below your capabilities. Was it a fast or otherwise distracted game?

BTW, as EdLee also points out, the vow to critically avoid empty triangles didn't quite work out. See 131 among others.

A few good moves: 11, 21, 59, 67, 81 ... Carry those with you.

Thimblefox · **#30**

Hi Knotwilg,

I wasn't really disappointed. I essentially thought that it looked like a big loss, and that it wouldn't make much sense to play on.

47: Alright, so he can simply cut me at S6. But I was thinking that I could connect. I could've played S6 myself I guess.

49: Well, this is me not knowing what to do with that group. I guess I'd just play at some star point now, or get that group connected by playing S6.

51: Umm, I don't know.

55: I thought they might help me build territory I guess. :scratch:

111: I could've done something for my group on the lower left, I guess. I can't really say myself what I'm aiming for there.

119: Playing at G2 would at least be making eye shape.

121: Umm... making empty triangles and destroying my own eye shape?

127: I guess I wanted to save that group? I'd just play K7 and try to make eyes on the left now.

129: This also seems kind of senseless. Maybe J7 would've let my group live though. :scratch:

I wasn't that distracted really, but I was struggling to see good moves for some reason. Maybe I was more tired than I though? I'm not certain. Since he put up such a fight I totally forgot to think about empty triangles and alternatives though. :tmbdown:

Knotwilg · **#31**

Good self analysis. I see you worry mostly about connection and this is indeed very important.

More analysis of that game below. Don't pause for too long at it. Next game is the most important one, applying lessons learnt.

Bill Spight · **#32**

A couple of comments, focused on alternatives to empty triangles.

Thimblefox · **#33**

I'll take with me how to handle that cut at 21, and how to connect at 41. I did play a game after this one focusing solely on avoiding empty triangles, didn't quite work out.

skydyr · **#34**

Just a quick comment on the first game: If you look at the board, very early on white basically conceded the entire right half of the board to black, and then proceeded to fight over the left half. This is not how to play go: you need at least half the points to win! White's initial invasion was still somewhat reasonable, as you can make a jump into the center and start running while splitting black, but it is hard. The key takeaway, though, is that when black claims half the board like that, he must be challenged, or you may as well resign.

Comments on the second game:

Thimblefox · **#35**

Yeah, but I decided to save what I had and come stronger back in the next game. Else I'd just make tons of cuts and lose by even more, that's what I was thinking at least. At any rate, I just played a game where I took half the board, but because my reading skill is still crap I let my opponent invade although it shouldn't have worked at all.

But that's good. Next game I do the same without letting my opponent invade, and the game is won. Or.. I learn a valuable lesson. :lol:

I've started doing tsumego at goproblems.com, and I'm still waiting for a book with life and death problems.

EdLee · **#36**

Hi Thimblefox,

Game 1:

:b7:

No, this is not where you lost the game. No problem.

:w10:

Your note about A is correct -- the right side gap is 1 space wider -- simple fundamental to remember. But, the K16 :black:

stone is on the 4th line, versus the R9 :black:

stone on 3rd -- so it's tricky.
Anyway, this is not where you lost the game, so no problem either way.

:w12:

correct basic shape.

:w14:

You don't take care of your (now) heavy o16 group. You create another weak group. This is a problem. You'll be very busy.

:w18:

,

Your

is a possibility, but your :w20:

pull-back is too heavy, and you hurt your o16 group even more. Not good.
Instead of :w20:

pull-back, you had to read other options, such as L16 cross-cut and start a local fight.
This is a problem with your reading, as you mentioned, and your fight skills.
This is where you start to get into trouble.

:w22:

Again, you create a weak group Q5 and abandon it. Not good.

:w24:

...

If this is your "strategy", you might as well resign.
There's a Chinese saying to describe this way of play: to die a peaceful death.
You can clearly see, even before :w24:

through

,
that Black controls a much bigger part of the board than you.
You must jump in and fight -- you may get completely wiped out, yes,
but it's much better to lose by fighting hard than just give up completely.

:w46:

Yes, e2 hane is the only move. This is the kind of mistakes that's important. This is a 20-point+ mistake. Just one move.
This is important. ( Not :w10:

. )

Bad habit. Just connect. Important basic to learn.

:b69:

If you had simply connected on :w68:

, then this :b69:

would be gote. Now, it's sente. This is one reason :w68:

is bad.

Bad. Broken shape. Bad shape. The combination of :w74:

and

is bad.
Important basic to learn.

EdLee · **#37**

Thimblefox wrote:

my reading skill is still crap

Yes, and that's a big fundamental problem for these levels, for our levels.

Our levels are determined "mostly" by our reading.
(I only have anecdotal evidence for this; no hard data.)

For example, in game 1, :w14:

,

,

,

,

,

-- important basics to study. ( Problem is not :w6:

or

. )

...

Global assessment -- higher level problem.

To improve our level, at this phase, means to improve our reading,
which in turn means acquiring a vast amount of knowledge about
basic shapes ( :w46:

,

,

, etc. ), basic fighting skills ( :w20:

),
basic tesujis, basic life-and-death ( :b37:

,

), etc.

Don't stress over nebulous things ( :w6:

,

) -- Less important.
Focus on the details ( :w46:

,

,

) -- Critical.

Knotwilg · **#38**

Hi,

From game 2 you have drawn correct conclusions.
For game 1 your conclusions are somewhat misguided. I concur with skydyr: "The key takeaway, though, is that when black claims half the board like that, he must be challenged, or you may as well resign."

And obviously EdLee has made a good technical analysis too.

Thimblefox · **#39**

Hi EdLee,

It just seems like I'd want to avoid playing this move at all. Well, maybe I could try to build a wall and isolate K16, would that be an idea?

:w24:

...

: I see these moves as very psychological, and symptomatic of something that used to happen when I played Go a couple of years ago. Maybe I have those old sgf-files still, but at any rate I noticed that after I played something similar to this, I would play a lot better in the following games, and because of that I saw it as a sort of good sign when I reviewed the game. But let's see how I do in my upcoming games!

:w68:

...

: I'll try to keep this in mind.

:w76:

: You mean something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . 1 O 2 . . $$ | . . . . . . 3 . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

EdLee · **#40**

Thimblefox wrote:

It just seems like I'd want to avoid playing this move at all. Well, maybe I could try to build a wall and isolate K16, would that be an idea?

Hi Thimblefox,

In game 1, your :w12:

extend to o16 is one correct local shape.
What do you mean ?

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