What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Fedya · **#201**

Quote:

I was asking about this hane and connect.

I didn't think about the hane and connect. When I saw that the hane and descend didn't work, I stopped thinking about the hane. :oops:

Bill Spight · **#202**

Fedya wrote:

Quote:

I was asking about this hane and connect.

I didn't think about the hane and connect. When I saw that the hane and descend didn't work, I stopped thinking about the hane. :oops:

So you saw this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------- $$ . . . 3 . . . | $$ . . 2 1 . 4 . | $$ . O . X O . . | $$ O . . X O . . | $$ X X . . X . . | $$ . . . X . . . |[/go]

and said, No good, right?

What about this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------- $$ . . . 3 . . . | $$ . . 2 1 5 4 . | $$ . O . X O . . | $$ O . . X O . . | $$ X X . . X . . | $$ . . . X . . . |[/go]

Fedya · **#203**

Bill Spight wrote:

Fedya wrote:

Quote:

BTW, Fedya, why didn't you play the hane and connect in the corner?

But while we are at it, how does Black respond to :w5:

in this sequence?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------- $$ . . . . . 5 . | $$ . . . X O 4 . | $$ . O . X O . . | $$ O . . X O . . | $$ X X . . X 1 3 | $$ . . . X . 2 . |[/go]

Come to think of it, I can't find anything that doesn't lead to a ko at best for Black. For some reason I thought I had looked at that variation, but I hadn't.

Fedya · **#204**

Bill Spight suggested:

Quote:

White to play

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 White to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . O . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , O O O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . g . . . . . X . e . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . c , b . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . a . . B . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W W W . W . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . X . . . X . X . W . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

"g" (K14) is one I should have spotted. "a" I would have rejected because of the push and cut, and don't know that I would have found anything like Bill's way of making it viable. I think b-e are all the sort of thing I'd look at and talk myself out of because strong players would criticize me for playing much too deep an invasion.

Bill Spight · **#205**

Move 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm62 Move 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . X X O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X X X X O O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O O O O X O O O X . | $$ | . X O . . . . X X X X O X X . O X . . | $$ | . X O . . . O . . X . X . . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X X X . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . X X O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O X X O X X X . . | $$ | . . . X . . X O . X X X O X O O X . . | $$ | . . X O . . X O . O O X O X . O O O . | $$ | . . X O X . X X O . . O O O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O . . . X O . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X X . X O . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . X O O . O O O X X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . X X O . O X X X . O . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I suggested this kosumi as something to play around with even though, as Knotwilg points out, it has no direct effect on the liberties of either side. There are lessons here that I have not had time to write about, so let me get started.

The first lesson is simple. White threatens to connect to his threatened group, saving it and killing the Black group in one blow.

Kosumi and connection

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm62 Kosumi and connection $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . X X O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X X X X O O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O O O O X O O O X . | $$ | . X O . . . . X X X X O X X . O X . . | $$ | . X O . . . O . . X . X . . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X X X . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . X X O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O X X O X X X . . | $$ | . . . X . . X O . X X X O X O O X . . | $$ | . . X O . . X O . O O X O X . O O O . | $$ | . . X O X . X X O . . O O O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O . . . X O . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X X . X O . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . X O O . O O O X X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . X X O . O X X X . O . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X X O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is one of the basics that Fedya should learn if he does not already know it.

Lesson number 2:

White gains a liberty

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm62 White gains a liberty $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . X X O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X X X X O O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O O O O X O O O X . | $$ | . X O . . . . X X X X O X X . O X . . | $$ | . X O . . . O . . X . X . . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X X X . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . X X O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O X X O X X X . . | $$ | . . . X . . X O . X X X O X O O X . . | $$ | . . X O . . X O . O O X O X . O O O . | $$ | . . X O X . X X O . . O O O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O . . . X O . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X X . X O . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . X O O . O O O X X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . X X O . O X X X . O . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X X O 2 . . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With this exchange Black prevents the connection with sente, but, while the dame count remains the same for each player, White has gained a liberty. This gain of a liberty is another one of those basics that SDKs should know or learn. To illustrate the gain of a liberty, let us start filling the dame.

Filling the dame

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Filling the dame $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . X X O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . O O O X X X X O O . O . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O O O O X O O O X . | $$ | . X O . . . . X X X X O X X . O X . . | $$ | . X O . . . O . . X . X . . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X X X . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . X X O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O X X O X X X . . | $$ | . . . X . . X O . X X X O X O O X . . | $$ | . . X O 3 . X O . O O X O X . O O O . | $$ | . . X O X . X X O . . O O O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O 5 . . X O . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X X 7 X O 6 . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . X O O 9 O O O X X 2 O X . X X . . | $$ | . . X X O 8 O X X X . O . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . 0 X X O X . 4 O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . a O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

takes away a White dame, leaving the dame count at 6 to 5, so that Black is apparently one liberty ahead. But White throws in :w10:

just in the nick of time, so that Black must spend two moves to capture it before filling the dame at "a". Even with Black to play, White has 4 liberties to 3 for Black, and wins the semeai. Note that White gains this liberty only because he has an eye. If "a" were the last White dame to be filled, doing so would capture the White stones and Black would not have to worry about putting himself in atari. But the eye is the last dame to be filled, so the first line descent gains a liberty.

Gotta run. More later.

Fedya · **#206**

Quote:

I have a feeling that if you were Black you also would have thought you were way behind

You've all been criticizing me for worrying too much about the size of my opponents' moyos. In this game (I had White), I focused on making territory while attacking, doing a very good job of getting a lot of territory on the left and top.

EdLee · **#207**

Quote:

a very good job of getting a lot of territory on the left and top

W had some cash, but not a lot, not nearly enough --
correct in the hidden comments.

To over-estimate a moyo is not good; neither is to neglect it.
Difficult to find the balance and evaluate well at every move.

sparky314 · **#208**

I hate fighting influence and moyo. I much prefer to break it up as soon as possible.

:b15:

is a mistake according to josekipedia. I point it out, because the correct continuation involves an empty triangle, then a cut...empty triangle is good here!

:w26:

would be a good time to invade before the moyo is solidified.

EdLee · **#209**

Quote:

involves an empty triangle, then a cut...

Guzumi ; with a "push-and-cut" -- starting a fight.

Bill Spight · **#210**

Fedya wrote:

Quote:

I have a feeling that if you were Black you also would have thought you were way behind

You've all been criticizing me for worrying too much about the size of my opponents' moyos.

Pas moi.

Quote:

In this game (I had White), I focused on making territory while attacking, doing a very good job of getting a lot of territory on the left and top. . . .

So all the time I was making territory and not worrying about my opponent's moyo, my opponent was getting a big, impregnable moyo and more territory than me. :mad:

A couple of quick comments.

:w22:

Not a bad place to jump to :w32:

, attacking both above and below. The jump cuts a sector line, as Wilcox might say.

You point out that this jump attacks the Black stones on the top, but it also attacks the weak Black stones towards the bottom. That's good.

Not so good. Even if White cuts off and captures the Black wall, that's not very big, only a few stones. Better to continue to attack on a large scale, for instance with a two space jump to H-11, perhaps playing F-09 first.

:w42:

Not having cut off the Black wall, but actually having strengthened it, White captures a single stone. :shock:

Definitely not worth the trouble. F-09 looks good, now.

:b43:

Black turns the table and attacks the attacker, topping the tree.

This is where the game was strategically lost. White had a good strategy of attacking top and bottom and pushing through into Black sphere of influence. Instead, White captured a couple of stones and made a little territory while allowing Black to save his groups and make strength in the center, solidifying a large framework. And to do so with sente and then enlarge his framework on the top right.

Fedya · **#211**

I didn't like the idea of Black sliding there, and putting pressure on forcing me to live a tiny life in the corner while Black would get a bunch of territory on the other side. Plus, I thought I'd be able to play under the Black stones later, reducing them much more.

:w42:

I thought it was much bigger. Not only do I kill the stone, I prevent Black from splitting me at the top.

I thought I had a strategic for my moves; it just turns out it was the wrong one. :shock:

Fedya · **#212**

This one showed up in TsumegoPro a couple of weeks ago, and I enjoyed it so much that I saved it to post here later. I know the answer now, but finding it originally was difficult. And some of the refutations of wrong moves aren't so easy, either.

Black to move

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black to move $$ ------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . $$ | . X . O . . . . . $$ | . . X O . . . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . $$ | . X O . . . . . . $$ | O O O . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

It should be fairly obvious which two points Black wants to make into eyes, but what's the right sequence of moves to do it? Just finding :b1:

wasn't enough.

dhu163 · **#213**

I found this set of problems recently

https://denisfeldmann.fr/bestiary.htm#p1

if you liked that, you might like the shrine problem there

dfan · **#214**

Maybe Black can do better, but this is what I found:

Knotwilg · **#215**

This is a fairly well known shape for us problem solvers but indeed, when it comes up in a game, I'm not sure I can find it. Its presentation as a "solvable problem" is already changing the mindset.

For anyone who is not familiar with the under the stones concept, this may be almost unsolvable.

EdLee · **#216**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O , . . . . $$ | . . X O O O . . $$ | X X . X X O . . $$ | . . . . . O . . $$ -----------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . $$ | . O . , . . . . $$ | . . . O O O . . $$ | X X . X X O . . $$ | . . . . . O . . $$ -----------------[/go]

Fedya · **#217**

When that problem appeared, it was one of the hard problems. Amazingly, an almost identical problem appeared in today's set, only in the medium problems. This time I knew how to solve it.

Fedya · **#218**

I think it's time to post another game. I won, which was a pleasant surprise since every time I tried to count I got the impression I was behind. (Considering that I had White and won by less than komi, I probably did have less territory on the board every time I tried to count.)

More importantly, this looks to me like another of those games where my attempt to deal with my opponent's big moyo resulted in my getting weak groups, while my opponent had no difficulty finding the weak points in my moyo. Specifically, D7 was a problem even though the group lived, and I thought I got a bad result out of the O17 approach. After :b53:

, I seemed to be particularly behind. But as we saw from the previous game I posted, if I don't do anything, Black is going to get a big moyo anyway.

Black probably should have been able to kill the center invasion, and probably should have been able to kill the big group at the top, either of which would have led to a big loss for me.

Shaddy · **#219**

The result after the upper right approach is extremely good for you. I dream of getting results like that. But making the tiger's mouth after the joseki was really bad.

dfan · **#220**

: You could consider something like L17. You have room to make an extension on either side, and Black won't get full use of his wall.

:w18:

: Usually if you go into this it is because you have some support to your left, otherwise you jump into the 3-3.

:w34:

: This is really unidiomatic. Black has a jump connection that you could conceivably cut far in the future, depending on how things develop. Instead you force him to make it rock-solid and give yourself a single 3-liberty stone attached to his 7-liberty proto-wall like a barnacle. D7 isn't going to be part of an eye or help capture anything. You'd almost rather pass.

Let's look at the points after :b35:

, To be grossly generalistic, you have around 10 in the upper left and 57 at the bottom + komi = 73. Black has around 16 at the top, 36 on the right, and 25 on the left = 77. So you're quite close and you don't need to panic. Note also that you have a monkey jump on the left so it's not as big as it looks. A stronger player than me would have to tell you the best move but one that occurs to me is P6, one of those "boundary between two moyos" plays.

:w68:

: Doesn't G16 give you a second eye too?

What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

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