Life In 19x19
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The way to BlackBelt
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10687		 Page 3 of 8
Author:  Elom [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: Final Games
Thanks Matthews! It's true, one of the first things that signal the strength of a Go player is finesse-- that's the first thing that really strikes out.

Here are the last two games In the 4th SAWMG Online Tournament/19th (huh?) Pandanet World Amateur Online Go Championship.
It's brilliant to have had the chance to play strong players. When I first learned Go, I wanted mostly two types of commented Game records:

1: Pros V Amateurs
2: Kyus V Dans

Now, I've fulfilled some of number two myself! Weird.





In every Game, I got behind in the opening. I'm trying to desperately understand what happened in all of the games, but it's proving a little difficult :cool: I just don't have the finesse. Any comments are welcome!
Author:  emerus [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
Were those games truly 10:00 sudden death?
Author:  Elom [ Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
No, they were 10 minutes plus 25 moves within 15 minutes canadian byo-yomi. I'll update the files, thanks :)

10:00 + 25/15
Author:  jeromie [ Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
I'm glad you enjoyed the tournament. I had fun too, though I didn't fare very well either (even in the C section!).

I'm curious about your move on the 5-5 point in the second game. I rarely see it played, so it stands out. Do you play that move in even games?
Author:  Elom [ Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
jeromie wrote:
I'm glad you enjoyed the tournament. I had fun too, though I didn't fare very well either (even in the C section!).

I'm curious about your move on the 5-5 point in the second game. I rarely see it played, so it stands out. Do you play that move in even games?


Hello Jeromie, yes, It was a very valuable experience :) it's true I did play quite a few strange moves during the tournament. Actually, one of the reasons why I played like that was because I wanted to make the game feel a even as possible in my mind, or even to pretend I'm the stronger player ("White is still being loopy" sounds really silly, but that's the point!) and while in a game against an equally ranked player, my opponent may be irritated, it would give a stronger player something to laugh at so that she/he doesn't bore to death :D

Also, earlier on in the month, I noticed that most of the Dan players would play at 5-5 or 5-4 in an attempt to trick me or just make the game fun. SoI decided to take it to them first :rambo: and I always respond to crazy moves with my own crazy moves or crazier moves :cool:
Author:  Charles Matthews [ Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: Final Games
Elom wrote:
I'm trying to desperately understand what happened in all of the games, but it's proving a little difficult [...] Any comments are welcome!


OK, the simplest helpful comment could be this: your style of go seems to force the issue, at every opportunity. Which stronger players are going to welcome.

You need a supply of "laid back" ideas too.
Author:  jeromie [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
Elom wrote:
...I wanted to make the game feel a even as possible in my mind


It's funny that you put it that way, because just looking at the moves it appeared to me as if you thought of yourself as beginning way behind and took it upon yourself to play desperately in an attempt to catch up. When we begin a new game we are all even, no matter the fancy numbers we attach to our names. :-)

The tournament is a good place to try out new ideas, though, and in this respect I think your gameswere a success. How often do we get to play serious, (relatively) slow games that have no effect on our rating? And how often do we get to play even games against players strong enough to show us whether our moves are truly good or bad? It really was a great learning opportunity!
Author:  Elom [ Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: 16th Nongshim Cup
jeromie wrote:
Elom wrote:
...I wanted to make the game feel a even as possible in my mind


It's funny that you put it that way, because just looking at the moves it appeared to me as if you thought of yourself as beginning way behind and took it upon yourself to play desperately in an attempt to catch up. When we begin a new game we are all even, no matter the fancy numbers we attach to our names. :-)

The tournament is a good place to try out new ideas, though, and in this respect I think your games were a success. How often do we get to play serious, (relatively) slow games that have no effect on our rating? And how often do we get to play even games against players strong enough to show us whether our moves are truly good or bad? It really was a great learning opportunity!


Well, what's interesting is that I'm usually a little negative in all of my games, even-ranked or not, and even in life, which I'm trying to curb.

Playing wildly was an attempt to counteract that mind-set, but maybe it didn't work completely :) I think I have to take Charles Matthews advice to be more calm and less anxious, which at any one point in time I usually am (if I count that the game is even I feel I'm behind. I also tend to count in a stricter fashion on myself than for the opponent, "just to be safe")

On another note, instead of posting one of my boring games today, I'm putting up some games of people who actually know how to play Go-- and play it well. Introducing the 16th Nongshim Cup, first stage.

I was completely unaware that the amazing Youngill An 8p Had done a commentary of the Games. So every single review are my own naive thoughts-- I have not looked at the Kang-Ida Commentary. So Once You're done playing around here, head on to gogameguru.com/go-commentary-kang-dongyun-vs-ida-atsushi-16th-nongshim-cup/ for some who knows what they're doing.

I created the sgfs aiming at an audience of kids who don't know the Game very well, so I made a (bad) attempt to make it seem cool (which it is, by the way :blackeye: ) please excuse if I'm explaining easy concepts, because they're done with beginners in mind (all who I can really explain pro games to at my weak level)


Here are the Games: Byung Sangil 3p V Ichiriki Ryo 7p



Tuo Jiaxi 9p V Ichiriki Ryo 9p



Kang Donyoong 9p V Tuo Jiaxi 9p



Kang Dongyoong 9p V Ida Atsushi 8p
Author:  Elom [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: a pleasant surprise
Due to an unlikely turn of events, I've made it to the last preliminaries of the 19th pandanet world online amatuer championships, main class.

http://my.pandanet.co.jp/sa_iwag2014/result-eu-t.asp

I must say that after all the excitement, I just want to produce a good kifu. My next opponent is someone named shimamura, a roku-dan. I don't know if roln is Ilya Shikshin, but I mightaswell do my very best to play a C-class insei level game or higher. Becuase I've lost most of my games against 3-4 kyu's, a few due to poka's I feel a bit like a sandbagger ranked IGS 6kyu. Mind you, however, I had a surprise loss against a 7kyu! Right after a convincing win against a 6 kyu! I feel that I get seriuosly behind in most of my games, but fight back in the middle game, either one of us get killed, or something dramatic happens. In many cases, I just can't turn the game around, especially if it's a solid player who doesn't leave a weak group to attack-- I won't do very well against Chen Yaoye ;)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: a pleasant surprise
Elom wrote:
Due to an unlikely turn of events, I've made it to the last preliminaries of the 19th pandanet world online amatuer championships, main class.


Congratulations! :salute:

And good luck1 :)
Author:  SamT [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: 16th Nongshim Cup
Elom wrote:
Well, what's interesting is that I'm usually a little negative in all of my games, even-ranked or not, and even in life, which I'm trying to curb.

Playing wildly was an attempt to counteract that mind-set, but maybe it didn't work completely :) I think I have to take Charles Matthews advice to be more calm and less anxious, which at any one point in time I usually am (if I count that the game is even I feel I'm behind. I also tend to count in a stricter fashion on myself than for the opponent, "just to be safe")


In my random researches into go, one of the studies I looked at was a series of comparative brain scans of high-skill Go players to high-skill Chess players and a control group. Compared to both Chess players and the control group, top Go players had seemingly under-developed amygdalas -- meaning they had a suppressed urge for fight-or-flight.

My own interpretation of this, as a beginner, is that Go skill is very related to reading skill, and reading while your hands are shaking and your heart is thumping is INCREDIBLY hard.

Since low-level dans are reading 10-12 moves ahead and pros are reading 20-30 moves ahead (or 100 in some exceptional cases, such as Lee Changho), the ability to suppress fear and negative emotions is an essential part of becoming stronger at Go.

But I am no expert. YMMV.
Author:  Elom [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: a pleasant surprise
Bill Spight wrote:
Elom wrote:
Due to an unlikely turn of events, I've made it to the last preliminaries of the 19th pandanet world online amatuer championships, main class.


Congratulations! :salute:

And good luck1 :)


Thanks!Hopefully I could make a good game out of it.
Author:  Elom [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: 16th Nongshim Cup
SamT wrote:
Elom wrote:
Well, what's interesting is that I'm usually a little negative in all of my games, even-ranked or not, and even in life, which I'm trying to curb.

Playing wildly was an attempt to counteract that mind-set, but maybe it didn't work completely :) I think I have to take Charles Matthews advice to be more calm and less anxious, which at any one point in time I usually am (if I count that the game is even I feel I'm behind. I also tend to count in a stricter fashion on myself than for the opponent, "just to be safe")


In my random researches into go, one of the studies I looked at was a series of comparative brain scans of high-skill Go players to high-skill Chess players and a control group. Compared to both Chess players and the control group, top Go players had seemingly under-developed amygdalas -- meaning they had a suppressed urge for fight-or-flight.

My own interpretation of this, as a beginner, is that Go skill is very related to reading skill, and reading while your hands are shaking and your heart is thumping is INCREDIBLY hard.

Since low-level dans are reading 10-12 moves ahead and pros are reading 20-30 moves ahead (or 100 in some exceptional cases, such as Lee Changho), the ability to suppress fear and negative emotions is an essential part of becoming stronger at Go.

But I am no expert. YMMV.


You hit that on the nail! One of my short term goals actually is to improve my reading ability by a significant amount-- right now it's about 15-20 on a really good day for a relatively linear sequence, but I want to start averaging 20 moves in two weeks! Following Lee Hajin 3p's advice to train you're strongest part and you're weakest part, I've managed to get my phone to play .asx files, which could only mean one thing! Lot's of wbaduk lectures! Especially Cho Hyeon 9p's "Profundity of Baduk" series, (what I call it) half of the series covers-- hold your breath for my worst nightmare-- THE OPENING. And if things aren't scary enough, it starts out with my worst nightmare of nightmares-- THE CHINESE OPENING! (wow, I don't remember ever using bold before) perfect material, almost too good to be true (Upon discovering them earlier in the year, I thought that if it's not a dream, why hadn't I discovered them when I started playing 3 years ago? (turns out I did, but it's a long story)

Anyway, my long-term goals... my non-secret goal is self-control upon the goban (which would naturally seep into life. Huh? My secret long-term goal? The clue is in the journal name, but it must be interperated differently than how one would first expect... :cool: )
Author:  Elom [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  The way to BlackBelt: Pandanet tournament, my last game.
I decided to just post the she without any comments. I'm going to scrutinize this game, since I intend to undoubtedly make EGF 5 Dan in 5 years-- or much sooner. Also, I have a good feeling about participating next year... ;)



Oh, what exactly happened!
Author:  Uberdude [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
o3 should be c5, it's double sente.
Author:  Charles Matthews [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt: Pandanet tournament, my last game.
Elom wrote:
I'm going to scrutinize this game [...] Oh, what exactly happened!


Good idea, given that your opponent is a class act. Notice that you are not being bullied, and also are not being given any serious chances to fight back.
Author:  Elom [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
Uberdude wrote:
o3 should be c5, it's double sente.


Yes, that was a painful mistake :-|

Charles Matthews wrote:
Elom wrote:
I'm going to scrutinize this game [...] Oh, what exactly happened!


Good idea, given that your opponent is a class act. Notice that you are not being bullied, and also are not being given any serious chances to fight back.


Yes :) playing against kyu players feel like playing against fireworks, while playing against mid-high dans is like being carried in a current about to tip you over a waterfall. And every attempt to fight back is not even countered, like water.

So, I decided to put up the rank graphs for KGS and IGS. Mind you. I haven't played on KGS for a while, and my IGS rank is provisional. As mef said, it seems like I'm aiming to join the ranks of the top European players, ie Pavol Lisy, Alexander Dinerchtien, Antti Törmänen, etc. Well, to achieve my greater goal, I have no choice but to, so becoming as strong as the top European players ie the way to black-belt, sort of a sub-goal, part of the way.

http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=WindnWater

[img]<img%20src="http://www.gokgs.com/servlet/graph/WindnWater-en_US.png"%20width="640"%20height="480"%20alt="KGS%20rank%20graph%20for%20WindnWater"/>[/img]

Note: hmm IGS rank display for WindnWater does not seem to be working at the moment.
Author:  Elom [ Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt, Power ModeTraining.
After trying my best to uncover the secret (not) methods of Korean YeungSeung Training, Chinese "pushups" training, and even Japanese Insei training, which is also useful, I have crafted a regime to help me get to EGF 5Dan by the end of next year (heh, it keeps changing).

All the daily schedule is for weekdays, with weekends left for more experimental study.

TSUMEGO

Every weekday, 15 unchallenging problems, 15 medium problems, + at least 20 problems ranging from easy to medium

PROFESSIONAL

Every Weekday,

Look Through (lv2) 5 pro games in the morning,
Skim Over (lv1) 9 pro games in the evening,
And Replay (lv3) through one game at any time of the day.

Also--

1 level 4 every week,

and,

1level 5 every month.

...

You know, a lot of work has been put into spreading the beauty of Go to the world.

There must be mixed feelings-- It's no small feat that from almost nothing, in a couple of decades the Go community in Europe and the Americas and Oceania, even the rest of Asia (unfortunately, out of no real fault of the KBA, Nihon/Kansai kiin and CWA, Africa has been left largely untouched) had grown to this level. However, it must be somewhat dissapointing to China and Korea that only a handful of American players, and even fewer Europeans could compete with their 1p's, considering these are the countries where they put 80% of their efforts. I mean, some, not fully undetstanding the akward Baduk situation and disrespectful view towards board games in the west, must be baffaled as to why not even more than a couple of people in the US could equal the current level of the top female pros.

Technically, we have a bit more of a resposibility than we may first realise as WeiQi practitioners in the western hemishpere. Every stone you get stronger is a tiny show of apreciation to all those working hard to BOTH spread Go AND raise the level of Go in the all of the countries outside of China, Korea and Japan.

And _in_ China, Korea and Japan.

Thanks for your insights, for helping me get stronger! As a student become stronger and better as a person is the ultimate gift to a truly dedicated teacher.
Author:  oren [ Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
Where are you own games and review? That is the most critical part...
Author:  Knotwilg [ Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The way to BlackBelt
oren wrote:
Where are you own games and review? That is the most critical part...


Indeed, forget about the pro games. Study a few commented ones, to understand what pro level thinking is really like.
Play and review your own games. The tsumego part, of course!
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