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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #161 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:11 pm 
Gosei
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Your move is exactly the one I played in my game so we both have the same wrong intuition, and/or we are both reluctant to cut and leave the cutting stones for later. Let's examine the continuation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 4 O 1 b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X 2 d c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 3 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The differences with the correct answer are that
  • Black finishes in gote
  • White has repaired his weakness with :w4:
  • White has played a cutting stone :w2: which will become annoying.

After that Katago wants White to start another group at a (the stone :w2: is just a helping stone which will be sacrificed).

If Black had played :b5: at b then besides being slower, White will play c followed with Black d, and it's the stone White c which helps to invade the bottom.

Black could have eliminated the aji of :w2: with :b5: at d but this is even worse since this gives White a free atari at H7.
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Offline EricBackus
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #162 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:25 pm 
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jlt wrote:
Your move is exactly the one I played in my game so we both have the same wrong intuition, and/or we are both reluctant to cut and leave the cutting stones for later. Let's examine the continuation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 4 O 1 b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X 2 d c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 3 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The differences with the correct answer are that
  • Black finishes in gote
  • White has repaired his weakness with :w4:
  • White has played a cutting stone :w2: which will become annoying.

After that Katago wants White to start another group at a (the stone :w2: is just a helping stone which will be sacrificed).

If Black had played :b5: at b then besides being slower, White will play c followed with Black d, and it's the stone White c which helps to invade the bottom.

Black could have eliminated the aji of :w2: with :b5: at d but this is even worse since this gives White a free atari at H7.

What you say must be correct.

But I still wonder about :b5: at b. You say White will play c and that will help invade the bottom. But on the other hand, maybe that would be White playing too close to strength?
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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #163 Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:57 pm 
Gosei
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With :b5: at b, here is a simple continuation. Black protects his corner. White is not alive yet but :w6: will help and may be sacrificed later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O 3 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . , . . 8 . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . 6 . . 4 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Another possibility is this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O 3 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . , . . . . . X 0 . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . 6 5 . 4 . . 9 8 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White gets the corner and :w6:, :w8: and :w10: have played lightly inside Black's sphere of influence. Some of these stones may be sacrificed later.
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Offline gennan
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #164 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:11 am 
Lives in gote

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jlt wrote:
Position #81, Black to play, find the next 3-4 moves. Nothing complicated, but not on my radar.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The hidden answer was actually my first thought, with white losing sente for a somewhat unclear gain in central influence. I'd assume that this isn't good enough for white to give up sente this early in the game, so white shouldn't even hane at F5 at this moment. The game is still in the early opening, so I feel white should have played elsewhere instead, for example approach a black 4-4 corner, 3-3 invade either corner or some other normal opening move.

I wonder how the situation in the lower left before white F5 arose. To me it already looks beneficial for black, not like en even result (joseki). I think white let himself be tricked there.
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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #165 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:01 am 
Gosei
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Yes I was surprised that my OGS 3k opponent misplayed that common joseki. The game sequence was

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 9 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 8 4 3 7 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


which was already bad for White since Black got 2 more points than in the usual joseki, and then White continued at "a" instead of tenuki.
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Offline Gomoto
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #166 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:41 pm 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Embrace the black ladder and remember the 1 2 3 sequence :tmbup:
Surprisingly, numerous players tend to overlook this pattern.

In this progression, exclusively favorable outcomes shall emerge. :-) That's how the stones are supposed to walk.

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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #167 Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:43 am 
Gosei
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Position #80: Black has cutting points on the lower left. Should he defend them? How?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X O X X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X O . O . X . O O O . X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Knotwilg
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #168 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:26 am 
Oza
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My first idea was this, but it's passive.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X X O X X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X O . O . X . O O O . X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I went for this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X X O X X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X O 1 O . X . O O O . X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White is not actually thick on the left side. Black A will be painful, so Black probably gets sente to play B.

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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #169 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:55 am 
Gosei
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Your first idea was the move I played in the game and your second idea one of the moves suggested by Katago! (Although Katago prefers D4.)

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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #170 Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:24 am 
Gosei
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Position #81: White to play. The move is quite simple, yet I didn't think about it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B O X . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Knotwilg
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #171 Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:50 am 
Oza
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First instinct:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 1 B O X . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X 3 2 O . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looking at it as a problem to solve, i.e. there is a non-instinctive solution:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . a B O X . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #172 Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:17 am 
Gosei
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Yes, your first instinct was my game move, and your second guess was Katago's suggestion.
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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #173 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:55 am 
Gosei
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Position #82, from a blitz game on OGS (1d vs. 1k). White to attack in the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X O O , O X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . O X X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . X X X O O O O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X X O , . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O X . . . O O . . . X . |
$$ | . X X O . X X X X . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X . . O . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O X O O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X . O . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . X O O . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Knotwilg
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #174 Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:28 am 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X O O , O X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . O X X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . X X X O O O O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X X O , . O 3 2 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X O . . 7 X 1 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . . X 5 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O X . . . O O . . . X . |
$$ | . X X O . X X X X . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X . . O . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O X O O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X . O . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . X O O . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the line I see

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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #175 Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:31 am 
Gosei
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Yes and there is also this variation to consider

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X O O , O X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . O X X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . X X X O O O O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . 4 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X X O , . O 2 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O X O . . . X 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O X . . . O O . . . X . |
$$ | . X X O . X X X X . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X . . O . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O X O O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X . O . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . X O O . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hard to say if I would have won a fight starting like that, but at least worth considering.
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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #176 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:43 am 
Gosei
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Position #83, White to play. Yet another illustration of "I didn't notice there is something to read".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . . X X O O X O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . O X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B X . . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . O . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Knotwilg
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #177 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:34 am 
Oza
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Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . . X X O O X O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X b O X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O 5 3 4 O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . 1 X a O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B X 2 . . O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . O . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . . X X O O X O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . 3 X . O X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O 2 4 . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O 9 1 X a O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B X 5 7 8 O O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 X b O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . O . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #178 Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:49 am 
Gosei
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Position #84, Black to play. How to invade the bottom left?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . , O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Knotwilg
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #179 Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:28 pm 
Oza
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Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
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Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
This happened to me recently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . , O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 3 1 2 . . . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . a O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . 5 6 . O . X . O . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . 7 9 0 . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline jlt
 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #180 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:26 am 
Gosei
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Interesting, your invasion sequence works but in the current position, Katago suggests a better sequence

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . , O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . 5 4 O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 2 O . X . O . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think the reason is that your invasion sequence weakens the stones H3-H5 too much.
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