Interesting but Black could respond with
at 
.And in fact Katago was thinking about an endgame move in the upper left quadrant.
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| Shapes to remember (SDK level) http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=16894 |
Page 8 of 9 |
| Author: | Knotwilg [ Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
| Author: | jlt [ Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Interesting but Black could respond with at .And in fact Katago was thinking about an endgame move in the upper left quadrant. |
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| Author: | EricBackus [ Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
| Author: | jlt [ Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Yes your proposition is a good move Katago hesitated with another move, not sure which one is best. |
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| Author: | jlt [ Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #73: White to respond to the cross-cut and find a good way to escape. AI's answer: |
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| Author: | jlt [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #74, easy move missed again. Answer: |
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| Author: | jlt [ Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #75, Black to play. Nothing fancy, but not at all on my radar. Answer |
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| Author: | jlt [ Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #76, Black to play. Another simple shape I missed. Answer: |
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| Author: | jlt [ Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #77, Black to play. |
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| Author: | jlt [ Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #78, Black to play. From the same correspondence game against gennan. At move 144 (position below) Katago says White was leading by 1.5. In the end White won by 16.5, increasing his advantage step by step between moves 144 and 286. Black missed several important points which appear in the following position. |
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| Author: | gennan [ Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
jlt wrote: Position #78, Black to play. From the same correspondence game against gennan. At move 144 (position below) Katago says White was leading by 1.5. In the end White won by 16.5, increasing his advantage step by step between moves 144 and 286. During this game, I was aware of what would have been black's optimal endgame in both of those situations, so I knew that black lost points there. I was also aware that white lost points around F9, but only after the fact. A recent comment of mine elsewhere was about situations like these. Many players up to about my level (3d EGF) are not sufficiently aware how many points can still be gained or lost in the endgame and they just go through the motions of the endgame to "play the game out", sort of assuming that the score is more or less frozen in the endgame, as long as you don't make obvious mistakes. I used to be one of those people and it frustrated me to lose many games to "point-collector" type of players who would catch up to my (perceived) lead during in the endgame to "steal my win". If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. This also means that in live games nowadays I spend less time on the opening to save time for the later stages of the middle game and for the endgame. That's also following advice that InSeong gave me when I was still a member of his online school. Some other games from that OGS fast correspondence handicap tournament, where my opponent allowed me to catch up in the endgame: https://online-go.com/game/51513875, https://online-go.com/game/51513876 |
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| Author: | jlt [ Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #79, White to play an easy endgame move in the upper left quadrant. Answer |
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| Author: | Schachus [ Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
jlt wrote: Position #79, White to play an easy endgame move in the upper left quadrant. Answer how about That was my first instinct… |
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| Author: | jlt [ Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Your answer is not good either (not better nor worse than the wrong answer described in my previous message). Some precise counting would be necessary but here is one plausible explanation. Let's say that after B16, Black protects with B14. Then White B18 is not sente, and has no sente followup. Whereas in the correct answer B15-B14-B17, the move C18 is White's priviledge. Note: in the correct answer, after B15-B14, Katago actually wants to play the sente sequence B3-B2-B4-A2 before returning to B17. |
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| Author: | kvasir [ Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
C13 looks interesting, like I'd want to play there. I think KataGo was quoted above so I could be hallucinating that this a good move. |
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| Author: | jlt [ Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
I use 15-block Katago and don't have a GPU, so amateur dan players occasionally find better moves especially in complex fights. In this situation C13 is a low-policy move but once played, it agrees that it's a good move, about as good as B15. Katago wants to continue locally as follows: However this is a bit too complex for me to understand. |
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| Author: | jlt [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #80, White to play. I hesitated between two moves One of those moves is 4 points better than the other according to Katago. I chose the wrong one because I couldn't see some continuations of the correct answer. Answer: |
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| Author: | remotecontrol [ Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
reminds me of this side joseki I had in a game recently. |
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| Author: | jlt [ Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
Position #81, Black to play, find the next 3-4 moves. Nothing complicated, but not on my radar. Answer |
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| Author: | EricBackus [ Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level) |
jlt wrote: Position #81, Black to play, find the next 3-4 moves. Nothing complicated, but not on my radar. What do you think of: |
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. At this point Katago wants White to tenuki. Later, if for instance White ataris then here is a possible local continuation.
then Black can play a. If White responds with c or d then Black b. The variations are a bit complicated but normally Black can threaten to capture white stones and then connect to a living group to save his three stones. So Katago prefers white to answer Black a with White b, and then Black can connect with c.
in sente. If White doesn't respond with 
then Black can play a.
is very big because White playing there is sente (threatens to save the three marked stones). White responds with 
(if White plays elsewhere then Black 
and 
is at 
at 
then Black can peep:
doesn't capture 
but after Black captures three white stones, White gets good shape and can pull out the marked white stone.)