It is currently Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:41 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Noles Study Journal
Post #21 Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:16 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3368
00Noles wrote:
Thanks for your advice bill. I think you made some good points there.

I always feel inclined to answer, when my opponent splits the orthodox, because white A after black tenukis gives white a very comfortable position on the right side, where black wanted to develop. I never thought of this in the way, that Q10 already lessens blacks prospects on this side, especially as it is high and so white could easily ignore and handle Q10 lightly. So i think being a little bit more flexible here, would be good. Black A, White B, Black C for example, to switch the course to the top now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . c . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 White gets to enclose the bottom left
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If :b7: then White can play :w8:. After that, maybe :b9:.

Quote:
But i think i guess i understand what you mean by the bottom left being most urgent in this opening also. I think i did not play there, because i'm not really accustomed to the 6-4 joseki. At move 19 for example i did not approach as i was afraid white might just seal me into the corner (maybe in sente) and gets massive development on the left. But as you pointed out beeing afraid is not a good attitude in go especially if there is no reason, as E4 is only very loose and even kind of floating.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . W 1 . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B 5 O . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Maybe this is the best white can do in the effort of keeping black from settling B4 torwards the right, but i think black gets way here.


The best White can do? Especially as White gets an extra stone. :lol:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 One way
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 1 8 O . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


:b23: extends towards the side. If :w28: then Black a. If instead White plays on the left side, then Black can play at 20.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Noles Study Journal
Post #22 Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:37 am 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 41
Liked others: 19
Was liked: 1
As i said, i don't really know much about the 6-4 point variations. At just projected a basic pattern from the knights move attachment onto the situation and thought if white cuts at 5 (in my diagram), black plays at 2, white atari, black take and thus black gets a ponuki, whites shape looks like defending the corner wouldn't be to bad of an idea and black extends on the left. Of course, white can just extend down though instead of playing the counter-atari. Albeit obvious i overlooked this one :oops:



It would have never come to my mind to hane underneath, like you showed in your variation. Isn't it still a little too good for white, if A is sente?



PS: I think with "extra stone" for white you mean C11. This was supposed to by move 10. I had a little trouble with double digit numbers in the diagrams.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Noles Study Journal
Post #23 Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:25 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3368
00Noles wrote:
It would have never come to my mind to hane underneath, like you showed in your variation. Isn't it still a little too good for white, if A is sente?


The underneath hane is a hoary play, but the usual joseki after White pulls back is (was?) not to extend on the 2d line, but to hane again on the 3d line. Then White would cut one way or the other as a sacrifice. The 2d line extension prevents that, so that White has to let Black into the side. I also used to think that this was generally good for White, but the bots like the 2d line extension. Live and learn. ;)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group