So, I've been thinking of some ways to study outside of simply reviewing my games and solving tsumego. The idea that popped into my head was: Study Professional Games.

Of course, at my level, gleaning insight from games played on such a high level could be nigh impossible if I only spend a short time trying to decipher each move played. So, I thought to myself, "how can I study professional games and get real insight from it?"

My solution came with surprising ease. I've decided that I will spend a week studying a single game that was decided by points, not resignation. If a game has around 342 moves, I'll study the 48 moves a day and try to justify each and every move. And by the end of that 1-2 hours, I plan to play the game out, without looking, up to the move number I've studied to. And this will be repeated daily.

And by the end of the week, I'll attempt to play the game out from move 1 all the way to 342. My ideology here is that if I know it, I'll have a better grasp on the flow of stones.

Does this method sound good?

B: Tong Yulin [3d] vs W: Kong Jie [7d]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 7 , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

1-4

3


6-8

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Slava Ukraini!

I wouldn't worry about full games; maybe stick to the opening for now. The middle game fighting would probably be too difficult to grasp. There are better ways to learn it, i.e. study tesuji and practice reading (tsumego). The same goes for endgame (tesuji and endgame problems).

By looking at the opening you should learn some joseki, but most importantly you will learn to identify big points.

Suggestion: after you've picked a game,
post each move on this thread, starting from , and your justification for it,
and see what kind of feedback you get here.

That's a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion! The game I've decided to study first is:

Kong Jie [7d] vs. Tong Yulin [3d]

It's a game from 2008 or so according to the SGF.

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Slava Ukraini!

Ed just wants free go lessons. ^^

You're definitely right. But I also think there may be some value in shape recognition, especially in middle game.

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Slava Ukraini!

Funny. I'm not sure I'm the one to get lessons from, though.

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Slava Ukraini!

My two-cents:
is a kikashi meant to diminish the value of white playing on top (especially closer to black's corner formation) because he will immediately come under attack.
is stylistic. It could be played 1 line above or can approach the corner, I believe. The important thing to know is that when there is a shimari, the side the shimari faces becomes very large. Splitting is more "modern" I think whereas the corner approach would be more classic.

Understood. Thank you.

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Slava Ukraini!

"Understood" implies I spoke factually. Maybe you should "consider" and not "understand" my opinion.

I meant that as I understand the meaning of what you said.

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Slava Ukraini!

Nice creativity, imagination, and sense of humor.

It is important to consider the function of each move, but it's also (more?) important to read between the lines. What moves were not played, and why not? This becomes more important as the game progresses, because in the early opening (read: first 5-6, maybe 8 moves) many choices are stylistic, but it still matters now.

Just make sure to choose games that have already been commentated, ideally by pros. There is no way you'll be able to figure out every move they played by yourself or by most of the people on this forum as well. You'll just end up justifying moves for the wrong reason and get wrong ideas no matter how much time you put into your thoughts. Also, the pro commentary will also allow you to double-check your thoughts with theirs to see if your thought process was correct or not.

mw42,This is one kind of feedback I had in mind for hailthorn011 (emphases added).

I have mixed feelings about the last couple of comments in this thread. It's true that amateur players may, by and large, have difficulty in understanding the reason behind why a pro played a particular move.

But I think that going over a game, even if it doesn't have commentary, provides a couple of benefits:
1.) It will give you new ideas that you may not have thought of before. Maybe you'll see some interesting shapes. When you are in a common situation in a real game, maybe the move you saw is not the correct move to play, but at least you've had exposure to the move, and you can consider something like it.

2.) Even if you investigate the position and come up with the wrong reasons, the investigation in itself is still worthwhile, in my opinion. You might be wrong about something, but at least you can exercise your mind in thinking about it.

That said, guidance from stronger players - pros especially - may lead one into the correct direction more quickly than you might have on your own otherwise.

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be immersed

One counter-example is I've seen people -- both from our local club (including myself) and online,
from around high kyu to low- to mid-dan levels, "copy" pro moves
either consciously or subconsciously (re: by osmosis a la Kirby),
only to find out later from a pro that they/we completely misunderstood the meanings
behind the pro moves so that the "copying" was not only wrong,
but in some cases even became bad habits that had to be undone.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

When inseis and pros replay and study pro games, they are
on a completely different level than my,
and I take the liberty to include Kirby's and hailthorn011's, levels.

As always, your mileage may vary.

"Just make sure you only review your games when they have been commented by a pro. There is no way you'll be able to figure out every mistake you made by yourself or by most of the people on this forum as well. You'll just end up justifying moves that are bad, or good moves for the wrong reason and get wrong ideas no matter how much time you put into your thoughts."

...just to get the ball rolling.

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Occupy Babel!

(Emphasis added) Not sure what that means; everyone else here is talking about pro games.

Those people are not actually thinking, but just copying, then. I think that the benefit comes from thinking through something by yourself.

The analysis is more helpful than the actual moves. So I agree that copying moves won't do much good.

But analysis of a pro game - or even your own game - cannot hurt.

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be immersed