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jts takes notes http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4820 |
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Author: | jts [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:22 am ] |
Post subject: | jts takes notes |
In the past I've found that a bit of rote memorization of the structure of a work makes it easier to retain the content. I'm going to be taking notes on books I've read to help me with that. |
Author: | jts [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Tesuji |
Author: | jts [ Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Opening Theory |
Author: | jts [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:16 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes | ||
I figure my study journal is the right place for gloating. I beat a dan-ranked player in an even game for the first time yesterday. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Also, I finished my notes on "Tesuji". Turns out there are sixty distinct techniques discussed there (depending on how you count). I want to go back through "Opening Theory Made Easy" soon. I re-read it recently, but (as my notes show) I only got a deeper level of understanding from the first section.
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Author: | jts [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Disgusted that I could really only remember the first third, I reread Otake's Opening Theory with special attention to the second and third groups of principles. I think I learned something, and I've updated my notes. I'm getting more and more confused about why the 3-space pincer works. Or not confused, I guess: I can see some obvious continuations if the pincered stone tries for a two-space extension, and I can see see a few moves into the continuation, and I know some heuristics that suggest that the pincerer is doing much better than the pincered, but I'm not confident in a game that I, as pincerer, would successfully extract something good out of the fight. Playing with more attention to opening theory has lead to a lot more shimari in my games (I started playing 3-4's purely for the purpose of practicing 3-4 approach joseki, at the suggestion of topazg - thanks topazg!), and thus to many more 2-4 probes. That probe is so wordfiltered annoying. After my opponent probes my corner is usually rubble, but when I play it more often than not I end up with a small dead group in the corner. I wonder what the most effective way to learn more about this probe is... it does get 9 diagrams in "Strategic Concepts," maybe that's a good place to start. |
Author: | gogameguru [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
jts wrote: I'm getting more and more confused about why the 3-space pincer works. Or not confused, I guess: I can see some obvious continuations if the pincered stone tries for a two-space extension, and I can see see a few moves into the continuation, and I know some heuristics that suggest that the pincerer is doing much better than the pincered, but I'm not confident in a game that I, as pincerer, would successfully extract something good out of the fight. I hope you don't mind suggestions here? If you want I can remove this post later. Maybe you can think of three space pincers more as positional moves that apply gentle pressure to an area? If you focus on them solely as an 'attack' then of course they appear to lack power. Their real value is in the whole board context, where they expand (or reduce) a framework. When you think about it that way, especially in the context of reducing, even a four space 'pincer' is useful. The looseness creates a better balance between attack and defense, so its harder for your partner to counterattack (similar distinctions can be made between high and low pincers). You can imagine a continuum between splitting plays and pincers if you like. If you play a loose pincer and the other player just makes two eyes in a confined area, you usually can be satisfied because they didn't achieve ideal development and you probably gained some influence in the process. Finally, although they appear to be less severe, in some contexts they can be more powerful in limiting options. An example of this is when they make it harder to sacrifice an individual stone. This way you can apply pressure on a strategic level. The same thing applies to various patterns based on the 4-4 point, where one player trades one or more stones for territory - e.g. invading the 3-3 point after a pincer is played. |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
The three space pincer is relatively lenient. It does not create an urgent situation. That means that in the follow up both sides have opportunities to tenuki. That means that whole board thinking is very important. In a way, the lack of urgency makes it more difficult to know how to proceed. Historically, it was associated with the Honinbo House, while the two spacer pincer was associated with the Yasui House. I took a look at games from 1900 in the GoGoD database. the three space pincer was quite popular. ![]() |
Author: | jts [ Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Thanks, David. Comments from others are definitely welcome. I thought that there was a clear distinction between the 3-space pincer and the 4-space pseudo-pincer: the six pincers all prevent the approach stone from settling with a two-space extension, whereas the 4-space move doesn't. No doubt there is a continuum between the tight pincer, on the one hand, and making an enclosure in the facing corner, on the other; the loosest pincer and the tightest non-pincer can't be too different, from that point of view. But nonetheless, (i) Otake, at least, thinks there's a qualitative difference between the six pincers and the moves that don't prevent a two-space extension, (ii) I've seen similar comments elsewhere where pros say things like "this extension isn't bad, but if W approaches here then you would want the stone one space closer (i.e., as a loose pincer)," and (iii) in practice, the loose pincer gets played a lot, whereas (if you look at DailyJoseki, at least) pros never play the 4-space move. --- So that's why I was wondering what happens if the loosely pincered player tries to make the two-space extension anyway, and whether it was really so much worse than making a 1-space extension. And Bill, those are interesting games. It's interesting to know that the Honinbo and Yasui were each associated with a different pincer - it makes the one-space difference much richer! ![]() |
Author: | jts [ Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Life and Death (Davies) |
Author: | jts [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
I've been going through the Davies L&D. The reading demands are really above my level: I miss problems every time I go through a section, even when I've intentionally gone through the section over and over. But I'm definitely learning. I have a better sense for how the notcher groups work now, and why they deserve their own classification. The general techniques (false eyes, shortage of liberties, etc.) I'm already pretty familiar with (well, even there I'm picking up nuances), but I'm beginning to get a sense of the attitude underlying a certain type of move. Very frequently I'll look at a problem and see some obvious weakness and think, "okay, I need to figure out a way to exploit that weakness to reduce the eyespace in sente so that I can then play the vital point". And then I'll try and try and I can't make it work. But in fact, frequently these weakness are so crippling that you can take the vital point first and there is no way for the defender to repair the weakness in a single move. (The reverse goes for defending, of course: the standard situation here involves a connect-and-die with three stones.) It's not a technique, per se. But it's a calm attitude towards killing groups that I hope will guide my reading in the future. |
Author: | jts [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
I finished the Davies L&D, and I'll be updating my notes when I'm feeling less lazy. I continued to go through the book very careful and thoroughly up through the L-group variations, but after that some of the sections were just too hard (carpenter's square... the vital point is obvious, but soooo many variations...) and others were too easy to require careful study (like how to make a seki). Then I reread Direction of Play. I first read it in... May, I think? At the time I was impressed but felt that it was a bit above my level. Having reread it, I fear that there's no there there. "Finding the direction of play" means "reading broad and deep in fuseki, and then having the strong positional judgment to evaluate different possibilities." However, my fuseki reading is neither broad nor deep, and even to the extent I can read ahead my judgments of the resulting positions are extremely shallow, based mostly on misunderstandings of scraps of wisdom passed down by stronger players. The first chapter goes over the "direction of play" for the basic corner positions - that is, efficient multi-stone frameworks that are built out of stones or enclosures that most people play in the corner already. The rest of the chapters go over specific games. What I really got out of Kajiwara on this reread was his emotional intensity. He describes contriving to take a potential extension away from a 4-4 stone as "kicking it in the teeth", which I like. The attitude of severe self-criticism he takes towards his own games was really refreshing, since especially in questions of fuseki amateurs tend to say "Oh well there's this pro who played here and here once or twice, I have the game in my database, so it must be good," and that's the ultimate court of appeal. Since then I've been rereading Attack and Defense. A&D was one of the books I read when I was travelling last spring and not able to play. I remembered it as very difficult but very enlightening. On this go through, it was much easier, and I've been getting most of the questions right. I'm not sure whether that is memory or understanding, but I guess I absorbed more last time than I thought I did. |
Author: | jts [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Wow, I am so slothful. I haven't been updating this study journal because... well, about 60% because actually typing up insights after reading the relevant books is hard (if rewarding and useful) work, and 40% because I've been rather busy with professional/family/social life, and also have a new and improved healthy sleep cycle (so no more "okay, just one more thing before I go to bed"). As I said, I finished L&D nearly a month ago, and quickly reread A&D. It was extremely enlightening, and I'm hoping to take very close notes on it eventually. I then tackled "Strategic Concepts of Go." I was excited about this because (i) the first time I read it, I was excited and felt that there was very powerful advice lurking at my fingertips, and (ii) I've been really irritated that other players are so successful at probing my enclosures, but I can never probe theirs without bungling it. However, my impression on a re-read was that it's really just a glorified joseki dictionary. So I laid it to one side and took up "Get Strong at Tesuji", which was a great deal of fun. I finished it over Thanksgiving and decided just to focus on tesuji for the time being. That was what really fascinated me about go in the beginning, that's what I enjoy in my games, and that's what I find fun to study. For now I'm rereading another tesuji book I had looked at before, and I may put the Fujisawa dictionary on my Christmas list. I hit 3k a few days ago. Until just now I thought that a game I won put me over the top (I was going to post it), but it turns out I was 3k when I started that game. Somewhat anti-climactic, as I usually stress out a bit about my first game at a new rank. |
Author: | jts [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
I have completely neglected this journal. In December I found that after my serious study of Davies' L&D, tsumego were much less enjoyable. It was funny - what before had become an interesting puzzle that I needed to crack, instead looked like something very familiar that I already half-understood. I guess you could say that before I had seen various problems as pure fantasies, constructed to have cute answers, whereas after I started to see them as variations on a theme. (Sort of like how a novel about some sort of tragedy reads very differently before, and after, you've gone through that experience yourself.) But surprisingly, this new insight made the problems much more frustrating to solve, since if I didn't get them as quickly as I thought I "should", my reaction was "argh, I'm so stupid", rather than (as previously) "wow, this is a clever puzzle". So I gradually stopped doing tsumego, and that also took a lot of the wind out of my note-taking program. (Partly because the tsumego-doing and the reading were meant to complement each other; I could see that I would need to read better to get the most out of the books I was interested.) I almost asked for a tesuji dictionary for Christmas, but the information about shipping was sufficiently vague and unhelpful that I wasn't sure it would arrive in time. Around that time I also stopped using Daily Joseki (Daniel's project) in any significant way. This was mostly due to complete disenchantment with the idea of memorizing joseki by rote, even in the context of the other corners. (Originally I thought the implicit message in "Learn joseki, lose two stones" was: "... because you have no idea when the joseki uses your stones efficiently!" but now I think it's: "... because you have no idea how the joseki uses your stones efficiently!") The winter saw me become very busy with other things. I barely had enough time to play any ASR games and stopped playing rated games. In April or May my rank on KGS became dodgy from misuse, so I got in a handful of games at that point, leaving me at 2k. Recently I started doing some tsumego again, but as a diversion rather than as a program. Sadly, I'm moving soon; happily, the move will give me a chance to experiment with living off the grid. I suspect that means even fewer games on KGS than now, but I do think I will have more time for reading of all sorts, including Go books. That, in turn, means that when it's convenient to update this journal again, I hope to have taken many more notes. |
Author: | bakekoq [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
omg. the note's really admireable. it's really awesome for note from the books. I'm the one who only had read Janice Kim's books for fundamental really need more theory for improving my go. I'm really glad that jts can share some theory here. thanks a lot. ![]() I'll sure to watch out for ur notes. |
Author: | Konijntje [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Thank you for this journal. I find it well written, educational and entertaining. Hope you'll be back after moving! |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Good luck with the move. I look forward to reading more here. |
Author: | thirdfogie [ Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
I remember one case where a professional played a four-point pincer. The diagram is taken from The 1971 Honinbo Tournament. This is my first attempt to post a diagram, so anything could happen... Black then invades at the top-right 3-3 point. The book does explain why such a wide pincer is good in this case, but the explanation is way above my level, and reproducing it here might be a copyright violation. |
Author: | SoDesuNe [ Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
I don't think that summarizing this one explanation will be a copyright violation (mere marketing - it's a very good book! ; ) ), so: It's important to note that the right side is not that big for White. Preventing a Black framework on the top is, well, not urgent but somewhat handier. If White just answers with an one-point-jump, all of White's stones will be on the right side but will not surround territory as this area is wide open. Black will make a perfect extension from his Shimari then and achieve good form on top. It's a bit too easy on Black but playable. Then: Ishida played according to Hosai's stlye, which was to take territory. Thus Ishida expected the 3*3-invasion. If he had played the "normal" of the widest pincers - the three-point -, Black coud have made a good checking extension from his Shimari after the 3*3-Invasion. White would like to negate this "good" checking extension and make more "territory" himself - therefore the four-point-pincer. The four-point-pincer invites a fight at the top but this is not bad for either side. If Black makes a two-point-extension towards the four-point-pincer, White will defend the corner, make Black somewhat overconcentrated and then just hop out. Both groups will live but White successfully broke up Black's top-side-prospects. On a somewhat related note: This is - as far as I know - a kroean development. I hope I got it right. Somewhere in this forum, there is a discussion about this four-point-pincer, but sadly I don't know where. So, what to learn from this? Maybe: Chose your move according to the global position (and style) and not according to Joseki? ; ) |
Author: | jts [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
Hmm, I have internet so I might as well update my journal. So far all is going well with my new internet-lite lifestyle - although all the drudgery that goes with changing one's address has seen me at internet cafes more than I would like. I have had time to play both of my tournament games and three ranked games on top of that. I should zap them off to the KTL once I've had a chance to look at them myself. Recently I noticed, when illuck translated a commented game that someone else had posted in Chinese, that I had remembered substantial sections of the game. As a result I shifted gears towards and unanticipated but welcome direction - looking over pro games. So far I've mostly focused on poring over three games that were posted on L19 recently, and a fourth game that I've always rather liked. I'm getting much more familiar with them, although not familiar enough to attempt serious analysis yet. (E.g., in the long term I'd like to study all of the L&D issues that arise in each game, do a count and figure out what the endgame issues are, look at the joseki variations and alternative, study the connections, pose questions to stronger players...) Once I'm satisfied with those four games I think I will start looking at some games from the classical era. I also reread Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go right after I moved, which was fruitful. It's odd how you can keep understanding such a simple book better and better. I took notes which I'll put up here eventually. In a remarkable stroke of luck, I went to a local cafe to log on to KGS and stumbled over a local go club. I didn't get to play anyone that day because everyone was already playing, but I'll be back on Thursday. |
Author: | ez4u [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: jts takes notes |
jts wrote: ... In a remarkable stroke of luck, I went to a local cafe to log on to KGS and stumbled over a local go club. I didn't get to play anyone that day because everyone was already playing, but I'll be back on Thursday. Congratulations! ![]() ![]() |
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