Hi.

Yeah, I agree, the title is very good. I spent all of 5 seconds thinking about it, but in the end, it's just the most accurate description of what I plan on doing here with this thread. Ever since I got back from my trip to the Baduk Center in Budapest about a year ago, I haven't really spent that much time practicing my Go. Basically haven't played at all, is what I'm saying. I also have a very poor memory, so I don't remember how to play "as well" anymore, if it ever were something to be called playing "well" to begin with. Anyhow. Game sense, I suppose, is retained mostly, but the sequences like joseki, fuseki and specific invasions and all that... Um, I remember random bits and pieces of each. Not that helpful.

I've been contemplating getting back some of that skill recently, but the problem is getting myself to actually do it. It's not that I'm not motivated about it or anything, no, I just have problems with getting things done. Brains yelling "come on, just do it!" and body not moving an inch, feeling too tired or whatever and all that.

So, I will attempt to use some "tools" that I found online to get myself to do it. Might seem a bit silly to some, but I honestly don't care. I just want to try it and if it works, who cares if it's silly.

Here's the list followed by how I will try to fullfil it:

One Goal - For this I originally thought "That's easy, 1d", but.. Rank as a goal doesn't seem to be a good idea overall. It probably should be there in the back of your head, but focusing on just the rank hasn't worked for me in the past. Not sure how to set a goal in Go if it's not a rank. What other way of quantifying success is there? I mean something I can decide I want to be able to do in the future. No idea. WIP.
Inspiration - Well, this part I believe is fulfilled by Pro's that I look up to and would love to be able to play like.
Excitement - Uh, this one might be a tad hard. While I may be inspired and motivated to learn, I don't know how to get excited about something so.. abstract. Let's put this one under WIP as well.
Anticipation - Apparently starting things "right now" is not good for longevity always and I should instead decide on a date, get excited about it, wait for that date and plan things. Friday the 21st of October. Yeah, that's when I'll start. I need to get all the WIP parts of this plan sorted out before.
Post Your Goal - Means put it on your fridge, computer desktop, walls etc. Be reminded of it. I believe I will go with the computer desktop option, as this is where I spent most of my time. Of course, that means I need a goal first. WIP.
Committing Publicly - This thread.
Daily Thinking - Well, I guess if I can "stick with it" I'll be thinking about it every day by design.
Support - Also, this thread. Assuming there are still people here. That don't hate me for something I may or may not have said in the past.
Stick With It - The hardest part of it all. This is the thing that always gets me. No matter how much I try, in the end, just like 1 year ago, I get too frustrated by the lack of progress and quit. WIP.
Start Small - Just like before, I thought "start small" would be easily fulfilled by just having it be "1 KGS Rank Up", but again, seems counterintuitive to focus on that aspect instead of just plain being better. WIP.
Build on Small Successes - Winning games is also not a good benchmark, it depends on a lot of random factors and takes away focus from the things you should be focusing on. Maybe being able to solve things faster/more accurately could be considered a success? Feeling good about a game, regardless of if it was a loss or a win, would be 1 as well. WIP.
Read About It Daily - Should again be covered by the actual studying of it, but apparently I should also read other peoples stories to remain motivated. Hmm, I've already read most of them. Hard stuff all this -.- WIP

So there. A list of things I need to fulfill. I would appreciate some ideas from the people of this forum, especially for the ones that I've marked as "WIP"(Work In Progress). How to quantify goals without using ranks/winnings seems the most important.
That's all for now.

any chance of a review of your time at the 2Baduk Centre?

Uh, I'm not sure I'm good at reviewing things.. And things will have most likely(read: hopefully) changed a lot in a year.

I don't want to insult anyone, but I will just say that I was not pleased, honestly. My original plan was to stay there for nearly a year, until May '11, but I left after just a few months. Now, I don't want to badmouth Kim-sabomnim in any way, as hes just always been a great teacher to me, regardless of how difficult to teach I may be. I learned a lot from him in S. Korea and more in Budapest, even if his role in Hungary was mainly management at the time.

The problem were certain other teachers. All was fine for like the first month or so, but then Kim-sabomnim went to visit S. Korea and left the other teachers on their own. That's when the whole thing took a left turn. After a few days they realized there were no repercussions for just plainly not doing their jobs. So, instead of teaching us they were chatting on their laptops. I actually was sitting with someone who had them added on MSN and read how one of the teachers was complaining about how bored they were. They were bored and still refused to teach us. Some fairly insulting situations came up that upset the other people there as well, promises were blatantly broken. One night when one of the teachers had "called in sick", after studying on our own we went out to have a few drinks. And found the "sick" teacher in a nearby cafe, sitting at their laptops.

There's more. A lot more. But I don't want to go in to too many details, I think you get the picture of what my opinion of the place is already.. I was on friendly terms with most of the people there and several of them told me they were unhappy about the situation as well.

As I said though, this was not Kim-sabomnims fault and I HOPE things have changed since then and those "people" have been either gotten rid of or reigned in.

We did have fun though. There was some learning done as well, it wasn't like that EVERY day, but when the negative things were really just so bad, they stick out in the memories.

Sorry if that was a bit of a rant... It just kinda started pouring out

Why do you want to get back into go? What do you like about playing go or being a go player?

I think that it's these sorts of questions you should answer to motivate yourself.

_________________
Patience, grasshopper.

I've found out in the past that I'm not good at self-evaluation, so umm..

Why/What?
-I enjoy the feeling of getting better at it; when I can practically SEE the change in front of me, that's when I get the feeling I've accomplished something. Downside of that is when I study and play and work on it and DON'T improve, it has the opposite effect. This is what seems to cause the "I give up" moments.
-It makes me happy to play an awesome game of Go regardless of if I win it or not. These games are few and far between, though, due to being so harsh to myself about any mistakes I make. And, well, it's hard to feel great about an online game against a stranger to be honest, and the majority of my games are online now. Most of the games that just made me feel great were on a real board, usually against a familiar player. To have more of these games is a powerful drive for me and as before, also works against me in the current environment where I don't get to play against real opponents and they don't come up.

Thanks for the questions! You never know what thought/action/something finally just makes it all click and makes you able to weather the downs and enjoy the ups.

I perfectly understand what you mean. Once I did thousands of tsumego (L&D and tesuji problems) and did not improve at all (at least not measurably). That was frustrating. Since I have reduced my play to tournament games (and occasionally tsumego if I feel like doing that), I am slowly improving again. That's cool.


Same over here. Playing tournament games does give me awesome games. Not every game is awesome, but a good percentage. To make a game awesome, you have to give everything, use all the time that is available, read out every move. Great games are indeed motivating.

I do actually have to ask.. Where do people get their pro games these days? I tried searching for them, but go4go seems to have very few games available while eidogo which was my favourite hasn't had games added for a year now. I'm especially interested in Korean games. So, if anyone knows a great up-to-date site for them, let me know.

Studying professional games is pretty much my favourite way of studying.

I think that this site is very popular:
http://igokisen.web.fc2.com/news.html

Mike,
If i may ask, when were you studying at the KBC?

gokifu.com has a lot of games and it's kind of sorted.

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go

This site is very good. You can even set pro games up in game guess mode:

http://www.weiqiok.com/asp/ShowPlayers.asp?L=1

Assuming you mean the KBC in S. Korea, then it was September '09 to December '09.

Thanks for all the websites guys, I checked them out and I'm faily certain that between these, I'm not about to run out of material

Well "The Day" is drawing closer and I still don't know what my "Final Goal" and "Smaller Goals" should be. I'm inclined to just say smaller goals are rank ups, final goal is 1d, if I don't come up with anything better. But like I said, it's a bit of a bad goal. The most likely thing to happen when I start learning/understanding a new thing is that I'll lose games. KGS will reward that with demotions, so a rank based goal is kind of a meh. Just can't think of a better alternative.. I could try to make it so that I don't focus on the ranks , even if they are the goals. Realistically, if I actually improve a lot, and keep playing, those ranks WOULD eventually come along.

Aside from that, I was also trying to decide on the whole "how" of the studying. The most enjoyable way for me would probably be replaying pro games on my real board and then playing some games on KGS and self-reviewing those. Probably should do tsumego as well, goproblems.com? The Korean problems that I have lying around the house don't have answer sheets, as we just did a few pages and then a teacher would check them.. As for the forgotten joseki, I figured that I would just play games and when I mess up(probably 4 times per game with my memory) I'll just look it up and learn it after the game. That way, if I just keep playing and messing up, eventually I'll have re-learned them and would also associate that mistake in a game to it, making it hopefully harder to forget.

Ramblings. Really, if anyone has any ideas on how to improve anything here, I'm all ears.

if you enjoy playing against "real humans" why don't you go to a go-club regularly? you would have the opportunity to feel good about your games and stronger players could point out weaknesses in your play which then would become goals (well, eliminating the weaknesses, of course).

I would of course go if that were an option, but it isn't. The closest go club is, or well, should be, ~35kms away from me in another city, but I don't think it's even active. I tried contacting them last year or something and to this day haven't gotten a response. The closest real clubs are 200 to 300kms away, with a round-trip costing me in the region of 100€. Not an option.

I discussed this today with a friend(or teacher, I'd like to imagine I am allowed to use 'friend' here) of mine who is much stronger than I am and got some good advice on the "how" to study and also ideas for the goals and such.

Going by KGS ranks is not good as I've said earlier, but he suggested I should make my goal be a real life rank. That's a lot more meaningful and it's not just random internet games either, I'd have to do well in a real tournament. I tanked my EGF points last year in EGC + 2 other tournaments in Czech(Brno) and Hungary(Balaton), so even getting back to the rating I had to begin with is going to be a big task, let alone passing it and getting to the points required for 1d. Sounds like a good goal to me! That means to fulfill my goal I do have to go "out there" and play in a real tournament at some point next year.

The "smaller goals" part is a bit more difficult, we both agreed that quantifying go progress is somewhat difficult. Something like "Win X games against X rank with equal start" might be possible, but that fails to account for me first losing 50 games before I get those 10 wins and things like that. Even 10/10 win/loss would mean I'm just stalling, and yet it'd qualify for "success" in this type of a goal. Raising my EGF points from the abyss they're in now, bit by bit, is an option, but not a very good option as opportunities for points aren't just floating around. It would get really expensive for me. So, that one is something I'll just have to keep thinking about, maybe I'll just feel good about something along the way and I'll consider it to be a success worthy of having reached a "minor goal".

I found a "Check List" program for myself and I added these things to it:

[ ] 2 Hours of Tsumego
[ ] 4 Pro Games Reviewed
[ ] 4 Blitz Games Played / Quickly Reviewed
[ ] 2 Slower Games Played / Reviewed

So, every morning I'll uncheck all of those and as I get through them at my own pace(though I was suggested I should do at least the tsumego in the morning, for better focus), I'll check them and before I go to sleep they should all be checked. I haven't decided yet if I'll be going for 7 day weeks or maybe taking the Sunday off or something. I mean, I certainly don't want to burn myself out. But on the other hand, I am impatient above all else, so going slowly and not progressing "fast enough"(whatever that means) would make me annoyed and more likely to quit. So, I'm trying to find the balance.

I will also be doing frequent updates here. Whether or not people actually read this is irrelevant, though. The point is to make myself do/think/write/read about this all the time, to keep myself focused. And maybe, consciously or unconsciously, the thought of quitting will not become as prevalent when I know I have committed to this publicly.

I will be playing all the "slow"(20-30m main time, 30sek byo-yomi) on my "main" account in KGS called Hanezeki. Yes, I know my ranking right now is awesome. Before I might've cared and not told anyone, I don't right now. I haven't played properly in ages and I WILL lose games, I've accepted that. I don't remember who it was that said this, but it kinda stuck with me:

"But if your goal is to improve, don't worry about winning or losing. I'm a 6-dan. Who cares how many games I lost when I was 5-kyu?"

And all the fast games, 10-20sek byo-yomi, will be played on my old main account Mike666 that I originally registered the day I started in 2007, but expired last year during one of my "quitting periods". Do note that I am AWFUL at blitz. I have literally lost to people like 5 to 6 stones weaker than me in blitz.

I cleared my table and set up a go-only area there, so that I can replay pro-games and do tsumego in peace over there. Basically, everything should be ready. Tomorrow I will find out if *I* am ready. That'll be the real test.

And of course, until I actually DO all these things and KEEP doing them, everything in this whole thread is just a bunch of big words. Only the future will tell.

To be continued...

So, Day 1 is behind me and I gotta say, doing all those things seemed a lot easier when it was just 4 short lines of text. I finished reviewing the 4th pro game around midnight.. Yes I took small breaks and I also went to the gym, but daym, it took the entire day to do basically. Worst part was, as expected, tsumego. I literally started falling asleep while doing them. I don't know what it is about studying that makes that happen ><

I played 4 Blitz as well, but I am worthless at them so posting them is meaningless. I need to do them, though. Only staying within my own comfort zone is not helpful, and that's where the blitzes come in.

Game 1 the opponent was a bit on the weaker side, but it was a nice game anyway. I did some stupid things, but meh. Comments are in the SGF.



Game 2 the opponent was stronger and had also adapted the unfortunate side-effect of being 1-3k in KGS. WARNING: Comments may contain some bitterness, do not read if you're chipper.


Wooh. Coming up on 2AM with this post and the comments/reviews on those 2 games.. Dang it all. This stuff takes time. Well, tomorrow I'm not going to the gym, maybe I'll be done before midnight.

Just my ¥2 worth on your game with okeichan.

I thought you played the opening very well, and I liked your plan of expanding from your thickness and permitting him the under-connection.


However, while I know what you mean about the 'kyu disease', maybe the move you first criticised was not so bad (although making a base in the other direction was probably the right move) - he was playing in your sphere of influence, so an attachment to begin sabaki seemed plausible at least. But then he extended instead of crosscutting, and you built thickness.

The game seemed to go rotten for you about move 43. You attacked so hard that you made him stronger and your own group weak! In fact, by the end of the fight you had to work hard and expensively to live, while he got a fabulous wall in the centre.

Instead, just e5 looks perfect. It doesn't kill, but it would have worked well overall hhad you played it soon enough･

You must have read Attack and Defence, I guess. There's a great anecdote about the player who was superb at tesuji, but kept ruining his own position by attacking relentlessly. Perhaps you were like that player in this game?

A lesson for us both - respect the opponent. One or two bad-looking moves does not mean that they have no plan or that everythinng they do will be an overplay.

Do you read go books? I don't know about you, but somehow recently I have been finding it a great deal easier to remember sequences and joseki when shown in the context of a game or explanation. Obviously, doing tsumego is good for your tactics, but then there's strategy and technique...

Finally, if you're tired, maybe you'd do better to rest? Just grinding on is like cramming for your exams, which doesn't work. Little and often might help you to remember more and enjoy it more. Enjoying the study has to be part of the motivation to do it.

_________________
Learn the "tea-stealing" tesuji! Cho Chikun demonstrates here:

Yes, I know, the comments are somewhat belittling, but it's because I've played dozens of games against people that do it even more frequently. Even if they fail, they keep trying to trick, over and over. So, I sometimes kinda project this "past anger" towards the entire style to others that may have only done it to a lesser extend.

I've read the beginning of Attack & Defence, before I got bored, does that count?

I intend to read more of them this time around, though. Just trying to find the time for them. And resting, taking it easy and all that.. Doesn't work for me. I've tried that. I get annoyed at the "too slow" progress when I just do little and it pushes me to give up. Also, unstructured learning isn't good either. I have to have this "check list" and specific amounts/times, or I will just not do them properly. I know it from past experience. It's easy to say "well just do it", hard to ACTUALLY "just do it".

What I might have to adjust is the 2 hours of tsumego. Getting better at reading is one of the most important things in my mind, but 2 hours of it just makes me so darned tired and kinda makes me not look forward to the whole thing at all. I hate not being able to do it more, or rather, not enjoying it.. I know some people that think tsumego is the best part of studying go and they'd rather not replay pro games or things that I enjoy greatly.

On the subject of replaying pro games: What I'm actually doing is replaying all of Lee Sedols games starting from 1997. He's my, well, "Go Idol" if you wish. Replaying and memorizing his games was the most enjoyable part of the day! Despite taking hours, I didn't even notice the time. Oh how I wish I could just play and replay his games and become stronger, but alas, I doubt that would do a thing to my reading ability. The moves he makes are not possible without deep reading.

Wait, what was the subject again? I forgot. Oh well. Nice to have a thread like this for rambling on about stuff that's on my mind.

You probably know about the 10000 hours idea that's been floating around recently. I think the catch is that it's as much the quality of time spent as the quantity that matters. If you're just clocking up the hours without paying attention, then you won't learn much; but if you pay attention to something that really interests you and engages you, then you will clock up your study hours without even noticing them. If you don't enjoy tsumego, that might not be the best study method for you, even if that's what most people recommend. Or perhaps you might want to try easier problems (which is actually what the experts recommend the most, anyway), and you can enjoy the repeated pleasure of getting the right answer, both in study and in real games.

Can you get hold of commented games by Lee Sedol? I'm starting to think that playing over pro games is a two-edged sword - if you misinterpret them, it might even hold back your progress. With a decent commentary, you can at least learn what really was important.

_________________
Learn the "tea-stealing" tesuji! Cho Chikun demonstrates here:

There are some commented games of him, I know that much, but enough to keep me busy for more than a week or two? Not sure. He has obviously played in a lot of tournaments and those are the games that get commented most frequently, so, there's that, but I could not locate a "collection".

And yes, I do know about the 10,000 hours idea. I also know that studying "an hour per day" like many suggest, would lead to that 10,000 hours taking 27+ years to do. I believe it's 4.5 years even if you do 6 hours every single day. To me at least, 4.5 years seems far more reasonable than 27 and doing 1 hour per day to me would suggest no interest in ever reaching it.

I would drop tsumego and study only the things I like if I could know that it actually works like that. Have people reached any decent level of play without touching tsumego? I'm not sure that I can advance much further with my playstyle if I don't fix the gaping hole that is my lack of reading ability.. I agree with you that it should be something I enjoy to be effective, but even ineffective training of reading should be better than no training at all. That's how I see it at least.

EDIT: There appears to be a 3 book series written by Lee Sedol himself, where he talks about 9 important games in his professional career and all the meaning behind each move.. But it's not available in English as far as I can tell. Urge to add "Learn Korean" to my goals, rising x_x