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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #61 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:59 pm 
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I'm reviving this thread to consider the paradigm for study that Kirby recently posted in his study thread: inputs, outputs, and review. It raises a good question for me: what are my inputs for go study?

Lately, I haven't really had any. As I said elsewhere, life has been busy so go has mostly been a fun escape. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm not content with the quality of my go. A lot of my losses (and wins) are characterized by crude play or one or two major blunders. I'd like to play a more beautiful game.

So what should my inputs be? It's hard to find testable inputs for the game of go. I don't have a teacher, and I'm not sure a formal relationship would be the best use of my money right now (maybe one day!). Collections of professional games are fun to read over, but it's hard to find lessons in them that I can directly apply in my games. Problem books are certainly helpful to train my reading, but how can I assess that? I suppose I could look for life or death problems in my games and assess my reading skill. Theory books are a bit easier to apply, I suppose.

Perhaps I'm thinking about this the wrong way. I've read some books on curriculum design, and one of the principles is to design backwards: think about what you want to test and then design the inputs correctly. What do I want to look for in my game reviews? What type of mistake would I like to eliminate? If I decide on that, I can probably choose an appropriate book or other resource to help me. I'll have to think that over.

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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #62 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:57 pm 
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Maybe you could post a game on here twice a week for review? It would make up for not having a teacher by having stronger players review your games.

In addition, do you have an outline of tsumego to progress through? I have a list of books to progress through (most of them are tsumego). I find having a plan of books helps to get through them, and keeps me a bit more balanced.

_________________
Go Books

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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #63 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:38 am 
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I'll start by reviewing my games again and deciding what I want to work on. Here's my most recent game. While I won, I think it also illustrates some of the weak points in my game well. (Sorry for some of the extra variations. I made the comments with eidogo, and I didn't see an obvious way to delete a branch once I had created it.)




Takeaways: I made way too many weak groups and had to scramble to find a way to profit from them. This is a common thread in my games lately. It increases the likelihood of a single misread causing a disastrous result, and when an opponent can read as well or better than I can in a close fight I am very likely to lose.

I also tend to relax my reading when I think I'm ahead and let opponents back into a game that I should easily be winning. That happened several times in this game: I won a major fight and then made a slack move that let my opponent start another major fight.

These are the kind of trends I want to eliminate in my game. My two goals are: don't create a new group without a plan for how to use it and maintain a consistent mental awareness throughout the entire game. I probably need to start playing slower games again to practice these concepts; fast time controls contribute to both errors.

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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #64 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:40 am 
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sparky314 wrote:
Maybe you could post a game on here twice a week for review? It would make up for not having a teacher by having stronger players review your games.

In addition, do you have an outline of tsumego to progress through? I have a list of books to progress through (most of them are tsumego). I find having a plan of books helps to get through them, and keeps me a bit more balanced.


Both suggestions are good ideas, thanks!

I've been working through a couple sets of tsumego, but I put them aside for a while. I plan to pick them back up and go through them again.

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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #65 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:40 am 
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I played a game with fellow forum member sparky314 last night (he won handily). I was playing as black.

A couple of moves stood out in our review:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . W . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I didn't know how to best handle this reducing move. My initial thought was to push it towards the wall on the right, so I played this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . B . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


We ended up with this position, which was not good for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . X . . X X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O . O O 1 X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I missed two fundamental principles here: keep my stones connected, and keep my opponent's stones separated.

In our review, we looked at M15 as a better initial move, and it's also important that black doesn't let the P12 stone become separated.

While there are lots of possibilities, a position like this looks much more playable for black!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . X . . X X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The second move we looked at was much later.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . X . . X X . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O X O O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X X O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O X . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O . O . X . X X . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


We agreed that this was the losing move. I was already behind because of my handling of the top right reduction, but this move removed all chance of a comeback. It induced white to connect his stones and left me with two weak groups that I barely managed to make live. In the meantime, white solidified his territory and eliminated any prospects of an endgame comeback. This is the sort of thoughtless cut I am trying to eliminate in my games.

Here's the whole game. White played really well throughout and provided lots of opportunities for me to learn!

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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #66 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Some notes on the early middle game fighting in your game with sparky:

:b41: is a superb move, with a positive attitude, but you did not follow through with consistent play. The plan as you note is to attack the W stone, by pushing it towards the B strength to the right. But your subsequent defensive moves were inconsistent with this plan.

(An alternative plan would be to defend around L16. You would have to count the score to see if this passive defence gives you enough territory to win. But that strategy would be a little inconsistent with P12 and J15, so I prefer your attacking stragegy.)

A large part of the B strength to the right is the implied presence of a B stone at P11, since pushing there is surely sente. Yet you never played this forcing move, and instead let W capture your cutting stones with no resistance.

For :b43:, take a look at what happens if you push once, then enclose W with M12. It does not look like W can break through this enclosure, and it looks difficult to live inside. Maybe W will find a way to live while devestating your territory, and you will have to resign, but at least that would be a good fight.

After W jumped out to N12, you still had an opportunity make a fight of it by pushing at P11 and again at P10, then capping at N10. That would maintain a good attack and keep all of your stones in the game operating efficiently. If W fails to answer your pushes, you get compensation by breaking up the W side territory.


This post by mitsun was liked by 2 people: jeromie, sparky314
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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #67 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:19 pm 
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Thanks, mitsun. Truthfully, I didn't see P11 as sente at the time (though that makes sense when you mention it), and I was afraid that trying to save the cutting stones would lead to a bad fight that allowed white to build strength on both sides. Your comments put things in a new light!

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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #68 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:45 pm 
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I played a game last night that I won after my opponent messed up a life and death problem, but I should have lost it. Two big mistakes stood out:

First, I messed up the follow up to this approach in the corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X O . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . X O . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


We played this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X O . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . X O . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 4 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


But I didn't read the clamp that followed:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X O . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . X O . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The position ended up like this, which is makes my corner approach bad.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X O . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . X O . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Surprisingly, when I used Leela to help me analyze the game it told me I was still ahead until this position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . O X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . O . X O . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X O . X O . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X O X . . X . W . . . . O . |
$$ | . O X O . . O X . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . O X O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O X X O . O O X . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I played this, but I didn't really read out what would happen. Leela suggested a play at a instead.:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . O X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . O . X O . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X O . X O . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 1 a O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X O X . . X . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . O X O . . O X . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . O X O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O X X O . O O X . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


My stone got cut off, and my chance of winning went way down after this point:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . O X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . O . X O . . 1 X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X O . X O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X X . X X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X O O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X O X . . X . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . O X O . . O X . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . O X O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O X X O . O O X . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


It strikes me that both of these mistakes are similar: they are errors in yose that are not backed up by reading. The errors in my previous game could (broadly) fall under a similar category; I often make mistakes when the game shifts to making boundary plays. I'm going to take another stab at reading The Endgame from the Elementary Go Series. It's not really the small endgame where I make most of my mistakes, but I think many of the principles will translate to the oyose stage of the game.

The whole game is here:


As a side note, I recently discovered the quarry makes it very easy to export diagrams. I like using diagrams rather than sgf files to highlight specific positions. Do you think it is more readable?

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Post #69 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:04 pm 
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Six principles from chapter one of The Endgame:
  1. Appreciate the size of individual moves in the endgame.
  2. Besides thinking about different moves in isolation, you have to think about them in combination.
  3. You have to search out your opponent's weaknesses and put pressure on them.
  4. You have to learn to recognize areas that look big but are largely worthless.
  5. It helps a great deal to know whether you are ahead or behind.
  6. Especially when the game is close or you are behind, you must not accept the ordinary move too readily, but look for the move that gives you a little bit more.

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Post #70 Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:43 pm 
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I've found The Endgame less difficult to read this time around, probably because I actually took the advice of the authors and skipped some of the lengthy explanations they put into asides. I'm in the midst of the problems at the end of chapter 2, and I'm doing pretty well so far.

I've known for a while that a sente endgame move counts for twice it's value compared to a gote move, but I understand the reasoning behind it this time. I was also struck by a few implications: if I respond unnecessarily to an opponent's move in the endgame, I am giving them twice as many points as they deserve. If I incorrectly judge a move to be sente, I am significantly overvaluing the move. These are obvious points, but I have also noticed how many points these kinds of mistakes can be worth in my own games. I have no doubt that proper endgame play (for my level... I'm not even talking about professional level endgame play) is worth at least two stones in my game.

I caught myself the other night in a pattern I can sometimes fall into. Late at night, I can find myself tired but not willing to go to bed. When I'm in that state, I often find myself doing something just to keep myself awake. When go is that something, my games usually don't end well. ;-) I need to avoid this; not just for the sake of my rating on KGS, but also because it's generally unhealthy and robs my games of some of the joy they could bring.

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Post #71 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:07 pm 
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I finished the nine problems at the end of chapter 2 in The Endgame. The problems are set up such that there are three possible endgame moves marked on the board. For each position, you are expected to determine the largest move, the smallest move, how many points each move is worth, and the classification of each move (gote, sente, reverse sente, or double sente). The authors allot a maximum of 20 points for each answer: 10 points for the correct largest move plus 10 points for the correct smallest move minus the difference in your point valuations from the correct totals. I got a total of 118 out of 180 points: I got the largest move correct on all nine problems, but on the last three I mixed up the order of the two smaller moves.

I like the setup for the problems. Very few of the tsumego I have done involve deciding between multiple areas of the board, so this was a different way of thinking. Counting the actual point totals was helpful, too, since it meant you actually have to read out the best sequence of moves from both sides. I'm still too slow at this process to count every endgame move in an actual game, but I think this will certainly make me stronger. (I haven't had a chance to test this hypothesis yet, since all of my games the last couple of nights before they got to the endgame.)

Here's an example of one of the problems at the end of the chapter. I'll let you buy the book (or figure it out for yourself) if you want the correct answer. ;-)


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Black to play
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . O . X . . . . X X . X |
$$ | O O O . X . O . . O O X . . X . O X . |
$$ | O X O . . a O . O . X X . . X c O X O |
$$ | X X X X . X O . O X . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . X . X . X O . O b X . X . X O O . O |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O O X . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Post #72 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:57 pm 
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I'm working through chapter 3 of The Endgame now, which presents various endgame tesuji. I'm pretty familiar with all of the moves that have been presented so far (I'm about a third of the way through the chapter), but it still serves as a good reminder to be on the lookout for these moves in my games.

The section on the monkey jump was particularly enlightening. I'm guilty of automatically playing the monkey jump without looking for a better move at times, and the authors show why that is a mistake. I also didn't realize how often my default response to the monkey jump can actually allow the opponent to push further into my territory. On the flip side, I can now look out for the opportunity to do that in my own games! There are so many clever moves and significant opportunities to change the outcome of the game during the endgame; why do some people find it boring? My guess is the calculable nature of the endgame is a turnoff for some people, but I find it fascinating.

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Post #73 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:00 pm 
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I've won my last 9 rated games on KGS. I can be kind of streaky, so that's not terribly uncommon. Also, a majority of those wins have come against the various incarnations of ayabot, which seems to have become my main rival. ;-) I was finishing grading for the summer term this week, and computer opponents can reliably fit in a quick game when I have a little time.

While it could just be a coincidence that I'm doing well, endgame study seems to be particularly helpful against bots. The SDK and up Monte Carlo bots don't often start ill advised middle game fights, so as long as I don't make any big blunders the games often come down to who can make the big plays to consolidate territory. If I get the first few big endgame plays, the bot will usually see that it doesn't have a path to come back and resign.

Not all of my games have been against bots. Here are a few positions from a game I played earlier today against a person.

Here's the first position I found interesting:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Black just played the marked stone. I'm pretty sure that his joseki choice in the upper left was ill advised with the marked white stone in place, but I wasn't sure how to follow up from this position. I decided that finishing the joseki was good for white, so we ended up with this position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Black to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Was this follow up good for white? I've got some proto-territory in the lower left and the upper left, but there are still vulnerabilities in both places. Black's group isn't entirely secure yet, but it will be hard to attack it profitably, I think. I wish I could have left his group a little more insecure, but I can't really find a better line of play.

A few moves latter I played this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . d . c . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm pretty sure this move was a mistake. I tend to make moves like this fairly often, because they seem to enlarge my moyo while keeping my opponent's moyo in check. But that knight's move doesn't add too much territory, and my opponent could safely ignore it and play something like a, b, c or d to stake out a very large area in the bottom and right sides. I've got something like 60 points sketched out in the top and left (and that can still be reduced), and black can get at least that much with one more well placed move. Black has lots of choices here, and all of them are going to leave white struggling to find a point for invasion or reduction that doesn't let black build up a lot of strength somewhere.

Of course, this is a kyu level game and black just passively responded at G4. I played Q10 next, to end up with this position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


It was looking for a move that
  • Threatened to leave black with a weak group.
  • Wouldn't lead to fighting that would just let black build strength.
  • Wouldn't be terribly hard to pull my stone out.
I didn't think I needed to go for a deep invasion at this point, so this seemed about right. I'm not sure it was the right kind of move, though, since the follow up left black without any weak groups and didn't gain much for white. It's hard to say if my reduction was wrong or if my follow up wasn't good enough.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I made another reducing move on the bottom and we ended up here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . B X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

My next move was to invade the bottom right, since it seemed to be now or never. If I died, I figured I wouldn't make my opponent any stronger on the outside. I lived (though I don't think I should have), and my opponent resigned.

If there are any stronger players reading this, I'd love some comments on my selection of reducing moves. They seemed like they might fall into the category of right idea, wrong implementation, but I got away with it because my opponent was weaker than me.

Here's the whole game if you're interested:

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Post #74 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:01 pm 
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A few comments. :)


_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


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Post #75 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Thanks, Bill! It's interesting to see how many opportunities for better choices I have even in an aborted game. After I finish my book on the endgame, I may have to find some more resources for studying the opening!

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Post #76 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:42 pm 
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In the upper left :w16: looks too simple and uninspired. This move defends against a B move at E17, but otherwise puts no pressure on the weak B group. In addition, it is a low move which does not cooperate effectively with the existing low W group to the top right. Anytime B feels pressure, he can push you down to inefficient low third line territory. You are right to look for something more severe.

The alternative move E16 would be a much better joseki choice, both to pressure the B group and to make the W top position more balanced. As the weak B stones run away, you might be able to keep up an attack while taking fourth line territory on top, which would be fine. The peep at E14 is also worth considering; the result would be very good if B simply connects and you then continue with E16 or F17.

:w20: should definitely be C12. This primary point of this move is to prevent B from making good shape. It also defends the cut at C10, threatens a cut at D12, and prepares a connection underneath at B14. In contrast, after B gets this point (in sente), his group is settled and safe. B has recovered from his initial weakness and now seems to have pulled ahead.

:w26: is an excellent move, at the boundary of two spheres of influence. No need to over-think this one -- you got it right. Just compare this to a B move at F5 (maybe even E5) to appreciate the difference.

:w28: (Q10 shoulder hit) is a plausible reduction move. Q8 on the wider side is perhaps even more plausible. Since it is hard to say which side is better, I might pick the cap at P9, letting B decide which side to defend. If B plays Q7, you can probably still invade at R5 and live. Invading directly at R5 also seems reasonable.

For :w34: why not continue at Q12? B has no good way to connect his two stones, so your reduction pays extra dividends. After :b35: your reduction has not accomplished much. (Now it is really sad that the B group to the left is not weak. If you could get some forcing moves around G14, then O12 would make double use of the thickness created by your reduction sequence.)

Continuing locally at O9 would be the usual thick shape here, but you cannot afford to let B consolidate all the territory below. Maybe invade R3 now?

:w36: looks strange to me. This invasion does not take away much B territory. In fact, the push at G5 seems equally large, without the drawback of creating a weak group. (Now it is really sad that the B group to the left is not weak. After pushing a few times around G5, it would be nice if F10 was a strong attack.)

Really though this seems like the best opportunity to invade deeply at R3 and live. You did that later, but only after B was too strong and probably should have been able to kill the invasion. But at least you recognized the need to try and made the attempt.


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Post #77 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:28 pm 
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Thanks, mitsun! Your comments are very helpful. I'll try to summarize my takeaways from what you and Bill had to say when I have some more time.

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Post #78 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:51 pm 
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If stronger players are kind enough to review my games, I figure I owe them the respect of trying to learn from what they have to say. :-) Here are a few takeaways from the reviews that Bill and mitsun were kind enough to offer:

  • I lack awareness of how the stones on the board are working together in the opening. While I recognized that my opponent played a lot of low plays, I didn't know how to effectively take advantage of that.
  • I can be over concerned with protecting my stones in the opening instead of playing lightly. I think this comes from not always trusting my fighting skills later on. Move 8 and, to some extent, move 16 both reflect an unnecessary concern with the safety of my stones.
  • I think move 16 was also an example of playing comfortable moves instead of good moves. Obviously this is part of a joseki I know, but that type of thinking shows up in other areas of my game, too.
  • On the bright side, I often correctly recognize when there are vulnerabilities in my opponent's shape, even if I don't know what to do with it. Knowing that I don't know what to do is a good start. :-)
  • 20 was another fearful move. I didn't know if I could follow up after the cut at C10. Positions like this are hard to read and evaluate, but I need to take the time to read it out the best I can and appreciate the difference between good and bad shape.
  • Sometimes my instincts are right (26) and I don't need to second guess them.
  • Don't ignore the quiet, big moves. (34)
  • Keep learning where / when to invade / reduce. (36)
  • I need to finish what I start. (38)

Thanks!

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Post #79 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:37 pm 
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Today, on the way to work, I fell off my bicycle.

My commute is short (only 1.5 miles), and most of it is over residential streets, but there's a short section where I have to travel on the main street that runs through downtown Littleton before making a left turn to head towards the college where I teach. It's not a terribly busy road, but there was some light traffic this morning, so I decided to turn onto the road when there was a moderate break in traffic. I've had a crick in my neck for the last two days, so my ability to look over my shoulder is limited. In order to make sure I had plenty of room to merge into the left hand lane, I quickly sped up to match (or exceed) the pace of traffic. (The speed limit is 25 mph in that area and the street runs down a hill, so I can match traffic pretty easily.) However, I didn't leave myself enough room to slow down for my turn. I went into it too fast, and my tire started to slide out from under me halfway through the turn. I recovered from the slide, but I ran into the curb on the opposite side of the road and fell onto the sidewalk. I wasn't injured beyond a minor scrape on my hand and a bruised ego, but the entire incident was caused by my own foolishness.

Why am I posting about this incident in my go journal? I had two losses last night, and they felt a little like my bicycle accident. My recent winning streak has left me over-confident and a little bored (and a bit obsessed with ranking up on KGS), so I rushed headlong into a few situations that were unwise. The result was that I crashed somewhat spectacularly. The incident made me realize that I need to slow down and stick to my strengths, especially when there are physical factors at play (in go, fatigue is more significant than a crick in my neck). I'm generally quite patient, but I'm not beyond making a reckless decision at times.

One of my crashes:

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 Post subject: Re: The stones go walking, and I with them
Post #80 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:36 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 189
Location: Chicago, IL
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Rank: KGS 3 kyu
Few comments. Take with a large grain of salt. Or the entire shaker.

:w6: Interesting choice, I kind of like it. I typically play dual 4-4 to remain flexible as white.

:w8: Trying to prevent giving b a bigger framework with the pincer? I'd have chosen D6. It leaves the invasion point, but that can be handled.

:w14: This black group is more or less settle. I think its important to get stones elsewhere on the board, with the approach at O17 or enclosure at D15.

:b15: This is probably fine, but I think E15 or K16 is bigger.

:w20: L2 instead to prevent the connection, if you're intent is to attack b's group. Otherwise, b can connect with L2 (either directly, or just push and cut. Also, w isn't profiting from these stones.

:b21: Black takes more profit. Definitely favorable for black at this point. Time to pincer the G16 stone and attack to prepare an invasion on the right, while taking profit on the left for white.

:w22: Still surrounding the b group. C2 or L2 gives black a way to live/fight to connect. Though it might be killable now?

:w28: Should be played at C2 first, threatening the kill. Then extend at D11. White gets solid territory. E7 is almost dead.

:b29: Crosscut at D11 instead.

:w30: B12 for the fight, or D11 to take one of the two sides.

:w34: Just take at B12. If black ataris, then connect. You'll get more forcing moves, and can live in the corner. The descent gives black more forcing moves, which is not what you want when he's invading.

:w46: Capture at E13. All your stones are connected. And it might be sente against the corner? Then you can attack the G16 stone to strengthen for an invasion on the right.


You played a lot of moves surrounding a difficult to attack group. Since black was more or less safe, it would have been better to tenuki. After you did surround black, you could have played a big move to threaten the kill (or maybe even kill it?). To show what I mean, by move 26, you played 10 stones in the bottom left while black only played 6, but you didn't gain much with the 4 extra stones.


Good luck for your next game. And stay safe on your bike!

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