| Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/ |
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| An embryonic new forum concept http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4482 |
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| Author: | CardiffGo [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | An embryonic new forum concept |
I have contacted Life in 19x19 by email but received no reply. So I felt that a post here would be the next step. I designed, coded, and wrote the http://www.learngo.co.uk web site as an outlet for my Go teaching. On the games page (http://www.learngo.co.uk/Live/ListGames.php), I list games that can be viewed using an HTML5 Canvas/Javascript game viewer of my design. It allows navigation via a list of game bookmarks, and previous/next comment and variation buttons. Having written the game display/edit engine, I have set up an embryonic Go forum (http://www.learngo.co.uk/Live/Forum.php). Unlike Lifein 19x19, moves are entered by a replier to a posted game directly onto a display of a copy of that game. Viewers of the post will then see the original game and comments with reply comments and variations appended. So the game board is the only focus for posting, replying and viewing. It is in an embryonic state, as can be seen, but I feel it has value. I have compromised the flexibility to keep it simple - for example, I do not allow a replier to add variations to another replier variations. This avoids problems where the original viewer changes his variation. I feel that the authors of this web site should have a look, but do not know how to contact them. My site is essentially a non-profit venture apart from occasional Google ads, which currently occasionally earn a few cents. Thanks for your attention. |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
I tried it out, interesting interface. In the long run, I don't think a board centric interface can quite replace "traditional" forums, because forums like L19 are so flexible (e.g., hidden diagrams and malkovitch style games) and uncomplicated. But it's always nice to see another take on a board centric discussion interface. |
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| Author: | mw42 [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
I like the idea of a "board-centric" option for posts. |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
CardiffGo wrote: I do not allow a replier to add variations to another replier variations. This avoids problems where the original viewer changes his variation. So in effect if a lot of variations are added by say a DDK, then these nodes will be blocked off from correction by dans who have better vision of what to do in that situation. |
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| Author: | CardiffGo [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
Thanks for your feedback. And thanks to lavalamp for contributing to my forum. Much appreciated. Design is often a compromise - there is no 'perfect' car for example, as it depends on your needs; speed, economy, load capacity, aesthetics etc. The design I chose allows players to revisit the variations they entered and update them. If only one game record were kept, a player wishing to change his variations could interfere with what variations that others have added. It differs from a traditional forum also in that there is there is no chronological dialogue. So maybe the label 'forum' is inappropriate. But hopefully it is a lot easier to see the effect of variations others have entered without the need to make a note of the move coordinates, and then scroll back to the game to see how they pan out. |
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| Author: | BobC [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
I've got quite some experience with web design and stuff and had a play with your site. I quite like it.. |
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| Author: | malweth [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
Why do variations need to be modified? If a variation is added, it could be a permanent branch. Instead of modifying, a user could just add a second branch. This is essentially how KGS in online, review mode works. |
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| Author: | CardiffGo [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
Thanks, you raise a good point here. But the first user who tried out the feature made a typo - he had to go back and correct. True, this is not a variation change, but he could have realised a better way afterwards - leaving his first variation and adding it again with a correction would have been messy for viewers. However, this sounds OK overall - it makes each reply a chronological addition to the post, better reflecting the nature of traditional forums (forii?). I will create a test forum that works this way when I get time. Often, only when a concept is implemented does its virtues and pitfalls crystalize. This discussion is very informative - many thanks. Sadly, whilst there are hundreds of regular users of the game commentary part of my web site, the vast majority are passive consumers, reluctant, it seems, to give feedback. Thanks |
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| Author: | CardiffGo [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
One other matter is that of concurrency. If only one game record is recorded, and multiple users are editing the same game, then how do the changes each make get preserved? Timing problems may ensue even if each changed/added move was user- and time-stamped. |
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| Author: | malweth [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
I'm not sure how you save games in your database. If you're editing SGF, that may be difficult, but not impossible. One way is to make a queue for pending changes then write that queue to your database serially rather than allow concurrent changes. Another way would be to allow each node in the game (including variations) be a miniature forum. The first to post shows up first, second shows up second, etc. Meanwhile, now that I'm at home on a proper browser (IE7 ONLY at work, thank you) I have to check out more than the first page of your site! |
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| Author: | Chew Terr [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
malweth wrote: Meanwhile, now that I'm at home on a proper browser (IE7 ONLY at work, thank you) I have to check out more than the first page of your site! Yeah, it's for this reason that I haven't really gotten to look at it. |
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| Author: | CardiffGo [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: An embryonic new forum concept |
It is both a shame but not a surprise that Internet Explorer 7 does not support the HTML 5 Canvas. Once again, Microsoft drag their heals - the other major browsers do support it. But this is itself a surprise, since the HTML5 syntax has yet to be fully ratified I believe. Certainly when I started coding July 2010. As for locking at move level, this is something I will think about. My coding skills are not always up to matters like this, so I would need to find an elegant solution. The game commentaries should be interesting even for most kyu players. I've played Go for 21 years and principally sit at 3k because of attentional, impulse, emotional, and tiredness reasons, not necessarily because of my latent ability. (16 years of tension headaches should give you a clue). When I write commentaries, I can explore variations upon variations - game commentaries sometimes take me as much as 7 hours. I learn a lot from writing them, hopefully in the right direction. |
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