It is currently Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:35 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #1 Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:26 am 
Judan

Posts: 5504
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 745
GENERAL SPECIFICATION

* Title: Meijin of Meijins - The Life and Times of Honinbo Shuei
* Authors: John Fairbairn
* Publisher: John Fairbairn [GoGoD Vintage Series]
* Edition: 2015
* Language: English
* Price: EUR 10.69
* Contents: history
* ISBN: 9781508843054
* Printing: good
* Layout: almost good
* Editing: good
* Pages: 210
* Size: 152mm x 229mm
* Diagrams per Page on Average: 0
* Method of Teaching: none
* Read when EGF: 30k-7d
* Subjective Rank Improvement: --
* Subjective Topic Coverage: o
* Subjective Aims' Achievement: ++

DESCRIPTION

This history book is a biography of Honinbo Shuei and his social environment but also describes the relevant historical context of Japan mostly during the Meiji period. The contents was published as files together with Shuei's games. This book edition is almost without diagrams and a history text only. The reader can study games in other media, such as, obviously, GoGoD.

For a specialised book on go history, its price is incredibly cheap. The author does us lovers of printed books the favour to issue the medium at all with as little extra publication effort as necessary. For the price, one can expect nothing and can easily tolerate (but regrets) a missing index of names and the person's functions etc. Nevertheless, we get the full biography. Regardless of whether a different layout and font could have reduced the number of pages to, say, 150, the biography is as detailed as one can expect from a non-scientific book with carefully created contents.

It cannot be overlooked that the author must have read a great number of sources to enrich the book with colourful details and anecdotes. Sources sometimes are lacking information or different sources might contradict each other. Nevertheless, the author makes a great effort to describe most years in Shuei's life. For a few years, the book is a bit dry when the sources do not seem offer enough information. However, mostly it is an entertaining narrative. If there is a real drawback, I see it in the climax of the book's final question of how Shuei became so strong. The answer is disappointing and the serious student needs to study the games on his own.

Have you seen Shuei mentioned in the English literature before? You will be surprised. His development as a player and the Japanese go scene were not so clear as one might expect from the too well known titles Honinbo and Meijin. Learn about fires, murders and intrigues...

Should you buy this book? The price does not provide any reason to hesitate. You get what you expect: a thorough description of Shuei's life. Just do not expect to become a stronger player from reading this go history book. As such, you will not be disappointed.


This post by RobertJasiek was liked by 11 people: Bonobo, CnP, Darrell, EdLee, happysocks, illluck, jccosta, RBerenguel, SoDesuNe, Theo van Ees, wineandgolover
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:54 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1809
Liked others: 488
Was liked: 365
Rank: KGS 1-dan
Ah, had to start reading the book again after your review. Now, I'm finished and it is still a wonderful read : )

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #3 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:30 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 155
Liked others: 153
Was liked: 40
Rank: DDK
Universal go server handle: happysocks
Thanks for review. Have just started reading "Four Hundred Years of Japanese Go" and this sounds interesting reading also.

_________________
"Tsumegos are for reading power and Tesujis for knowing which moves to read"

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #4 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:53 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 196
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 26
Rank: OGS 6K
GD Posts: 56
KGS: CDavis7M
OGS: CDavis7M
I also purchased a copy of Meijin of Meijin's recently and I hope Robert doesn't mind me posting here. I definitely didn't want to revive the 6-page "Life of Shuei" post full of complaints about amazon and digital rights.

I got this book because I was told that it includes a small history of Honinbo Shuwa. And it sure does! But unfortunately for me (and for Shuwa), this book mostly covers the sad part of Shuwa's life involving political upheaval, loss of stipends, the Honinbo rental side hustle, lousy tenants, fire, depression, and misery all around. Shuwa passed his burden to Shuetsu, who could not handle it. Luckily Shuei seemed to mostly avoid this while younger. But the drama in the Honinbo house started before Shuei and he continued it. It's all very interesting to read about.

I've only read half of the books and really enjoyed it but I stopped so that I could appreciate some of the games. You'll see that the book points out that some of the games are included in the GoGoD database, which I have. I played Shuho and Shuei's game commemorating the start of the Hoensha. Next I'll see how Momosaburo up on launch day and compare that to his game (after becoming Honinbo Shugen) against Kobayashi Tetsujiro shortly after. There are so many games and I think I would enjoy the book even more by going through a bunch of them.

The book has an appendix of Shuei's games but I wish that it had included footnotes or an appendix of these other games by date so that they could be easily found in the GoGoD database. It is possible to search the GoGoD GameData.txt, which includes comments noting "Launch of Hoensha" and things like that. But it's not a simple feat.

Anyway, if you are a fan of Go history (I am) then this is a must have even if you are not interested in Shuei in particular (I was not).

One of the first games published in Igo Shinpo:
Image

The book is fairly large, but the text is easy to read. I personally prefer smaller books but no big deal.

Image

By the way, Sensei's Library often has links to scanned versions of historic Japanese texts. You can click though archives of Igo Shinpo, which includes the game I played. Of course, I just played from the GoGoD SGF file.

Image

_________________
㋷ ㋣ ㋢

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #5 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:38 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 196
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 26
Rank: OGS 6K
GD Posts: 56
KGS: CDavis7M
OGS: CDavis7M
Here are some references to the GoGoD database for games mentioned in Meijin of Meijins. Unfortunately, GoGoD seems to be missing the "Burn Edo, invade Korea" game between Shuetsu and Ozaki Chuji.

The number in [brackets] is a reference to the page number in Meijin of Meijins.


[v] 1895-1904 Shuei vs Shusai (11 games) - named Tamura Yasuhisa.

[9] Shuwa's last "big" Castle Game before they became unimportant. 1852-12-27h?

[11] 10-game match between Ito Showa and Shuei. 1870-04-21a, 1870-05-01a, 1870-05-06a, 1870-05-16a, 1870-05-16b, 1870-05-26a, 1870-05-30a, 1870-06-07a, 1870-06-14a, 1870-06-23a.

[16] Shuei's game displaying an amashi strategy. 1900-05-23a.

[18] "Inoue Matsumoto's Masterpiece" vs Shuwa, blocking Shuwa from taking Meijin. Castle Game. 1861-12-18c.

[24] Shuei v. Tetsujiro 10-game match. 1869-10-17a, 1869-12-23a, 1870-04-11a, 1871-04-22a, 1871-04-30a, 1871-05-15a, 1871-06-22a, 1871-07-00a, 1871-07-10a. Game 10 is missing?

[25] Games from the Rokuninkai study group. 1869-00-00a, 1869-08-03a.

[41] Shuei v. Tetsujiro 20-game match. 1876-04-08, 1876-04-23, 1876-05-08, 1876-05-23, 1876-06-08, 1876-06-23, 1876-07-08a, 1876-07-23a, 1876-08-08a, 1876-09-13a, 1876-09-23a, 1876-10-23a, 1876-11-08a, 1876-11-23a, 1876-12-08a, 1876-12-23a, 1877-01-08, 1877-01-23a, 1877-02-08, 1877-02-23

[42] 10-game match between Shuei and Kuroda Shunsetsu. 1877-06-09a, 1877-06-16a, 1877-06-29a, 1877-07-14a, 1877-07-17a, 1877-07-22a, 1877-07-30a, 1877-08-00a, 1877-08-00b, 1877-09-00

[46] "Burn Edo, invade Korea" game between Shuetsu and Ozaki Chuji. Not in GoGoD, though Chuji does have a game with Shuho.

[61] First Hoensha games published in Igo Shinpo. 1879-04-20a, 1879-04-20b, 1879-04-20c, 1879-04-20d, 1879-04-20e

[62] After 3 losses, Shunsetsu apologizes and plays Tengen against Shuho. 1879-09-15.

[68] Newly named "3-dan Honinbo" Shugen vs Tetsujiro. 1879-08-17a.

_________________
㋷ ㋣ ㋢

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #6 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:23 am 
Oza

Posts: 3032
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 4089
Don't overlook "Games of Shuei" which has over 120 commented games by Shuei in Go Wisdom format. It doubles up as a weight for fitness training in Gyms of Shuei - and also makes that purchase of a posh go board and stones feel justified.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #7 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:10 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 483
Liked others: 102
Was liked: 86
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
John Fairbairn wrote:
Don't overlook "Games of Shuei" which has over 120 commented games by Shuei in Go Wisdom format.


I have it. I'm finding the lack of biography a tad jarring. The book itself says it's more current than your previous books on Shuei... and then diverts the reader to those should he want some biographic details. It's a 450 pg book, I think fitting a bit of a bio wouldn't have increased the page count significantly.

Take care.

PS: Since I'm mentioning the GoWisdom series... any chance of a mid-XXth century series? From Go Seigen to... Chikun and Takemiya, maybe? And, if we go old school, something about the non-Honinbos? Hayashi, Inoue... Thank you, whatever the answer. I do like the series.

_________________
玄 之 玄

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #8 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:32 am 
Oza

Posts: 3032
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 4089
Quote:
I have it. I'm finding the lack of biography a tad jarring. The book itself says it's more current than your previous books on Shuei... and then diverts the reader to those should he want some biographic details. It's a 450 pg book, I think fitting a bit of a bio wouldn't have increased the page count significantly.


It would. The biography is over 200 pages. In any case, 450 pages was on the limit of the Kindle Publishing size at the time, so even a potted version was out of the question. Not to mention that many biographical details are embedded in the game commentaries. The extra referred to is not in the biography but in extra games and some more extended commentaries.

Quote:
PS: Since I'm mentioning the GoWisdom series... any chance of a mid-XXth century series? From Go Seigen to... Chikun and Takemiya, maybe? And, if we go old school, something about the non-Honinbos? Hayashi, Inoue... Thank you, whatever the answer. I do like the series.


No chance. Sorry. Few people buy books nowadays and some cost me money. I still produce them but follow my own interests, which at the moment comprise old Chinese go (Museum of Go Theory series - a new volume will appear very soon), Okinawan go and biographies of Segoe and Iwamoto.

Although it's not Go Wisdom format and it's small, there is Peerless Pioneer, covering the non-Honinbo Yasui VII Senkaku (the Great Senchi). There is also an e-book on Genan Inseki. And for modern players, there was my brief foray with the book on Shibano Toramaru.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #9 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:16 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 483
Liked others: 102
Was liked: 86
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
John Fairbairn wrote:
It would. The biography is over 200 pages. In any case, 450 pages was on the limit of the Kindle Publishing size at the time, so even a potted version was out of the question.


OK. Pity.


Quote:
No chance. Sorry. Few people buy books nowadays and some cost me money. I still produce them but follow my own interests, which at the moment comprise old Chinese go (Museum of Go Theory series - a new volume will appear very soon), Okinawan go and biographies of Segoe and Iwamoto.


I'm not quite into the [re]edition of classics. I'd love them to have more info, at least judging from Evening Fragrance. Okinawa, Segoe and Iwamoto sound great. And Iwamoto might lead to a re-visit of the 3rd Honinbo, which is the game I revisit most. Pity about the rest. I seem to recall you liked mid XXth Go, but I understand it has to pay off the effort. I'll check the others; I do have Teenage Meijin.

Thanks. Take care.

_________________
玄 之 玄

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #10 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:49 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 196
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 26
Rank: OGS 6K
GD Posts: 56
KGS: CDavis7M
OGS: CDavis7M
I finished the book yesterday. The second half was as good as the first.

I plan to get Games of Shuei at some point though I thought it was a bit too big before. Teenage Meijin was a good read. Just so many books. At least Shuei's biography was an easy read.

But shouldn't I instead be figuring out how Shuei got so strong? Or maybe he left a hint on his death bed.

_________________
㋷ ㋣ ㋢

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #11 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:10 am 
Oza

Posts: 3032
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 4089
Quote:
But shouldn't I instead be figuring out how Shuei got so strong?


I don't really know the answer, nor does anyone else. There are, however, strong clues in the game commentaries. His famous L-shapes are one aspect.

Intriguingly, the person who is transcribing Shuwa for me came up with a startling new concept he called Shuwaian nobis (and one example of those he wasn't then aware of at the time is the brilliancy allegedly missed by Katago, according to the new AI book by Ohashi and Terayama).

I well remember making such an insight myself about Sakata. He had a strong predilection for moves on the second line, and though I haven't seen confirmation of this in Japanese texts, I believe these were the origin of his nickname of Razor (slicing the jugular).

You tend to become aware of such patterns of moves, I think, when you are transcribing. You spend so long looking for the next move on a board full of stones that your brain starts looking for shortcuts - and finds them! Such moves only occupy a small proportion of the moves each player makes, of course, but I think they are significant for two reasons. One is that they can be regarded as style shibboleths. But the other, which is important as well as significant, is that it gives you a clue as to how the player thinks about the game.

Shuei probably inherited a predilection for nobis from Shuwa, his father. He then took the concept a tad further by adding a nobi at right angles to make L shapes.

Similar style shibboleths abound. There are Go Seigen's contact plays, of course, which I think he based on Huang Longshi, who is likewise distinctive. There were also old Chinese players who specialised in lighthouse moves, which have a special flavour when group tax applies. Then there's Shusaku's stodge (confirmed by AI)...

It's a fascinating area. Feel free to share your own such insights.

PS This is a later addition inspired by sitting down to do some transcriptions of modern games. Players of my generation were brought up on the oddly phrased proverb "From a crosscut extend one hand." There was a reaction to this later when some people noticed that many pros made the atari instead. Richard Hunter wrote a nice book on this, and as I recall he was reflecting a then deviant pro opinion.

But what my unconscious brain seems to have noticed when transcribing is that pros of the AI generation are now favouring the nobi. They may sometimes insert an atari but they rush to make the nobi afterwards. I have even seen the famous windmill pattern in the centre of the bard a few times.

It occurs to me that the old proverb may have even been inspired by Shuwa. Since he scores well in AI analysis you may want to draw a conclusion or three.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #12 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:07 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 196
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 26
Rank: OGS 6K
GD Posts: 56
KGS: CDavis7M
OGS: CDavis7M
John Fairbairn wrote:
Intriguingly, the person who is transcribing Shuwa for me came up with a startling new concept he called Shuwaian nobis (and one example of those he wasn't then aware of at the time is the brilliancy allegedly missed by Katago, according to the new AI book by Ohashi and Terayama).
...
Shuei probably inherited a predilection for nobis from Shuwa, his father. He then took the concept a tad further by adding a nobi at right angles to make L shapes.
...
Then there's Shusaku's stodge (confirmed by AI)...
...
It occurs to me that the old proverb may have even been inspired by Shuwa. Since he scores well in AI analysis you may want to draw a conclusion or three.

It's interesting that you should mention the nobi because I have noticed it as well. One of my first Go books ever purchased was the lovely hardback edition of Invincible. This is where I found my appreciation for Shuwa, rooting for him against Shusaku.

I have been keeping a mental list of unusual (to me) moves that are "very Shusaku." Moves that are slow and solid, that I would never think to play, and that are unlike any move that I've seen recommended. After reading your comments I flipped through the game records and found a few of these very Shusaku moves, some of which were nobis. Not sagari type nobis (towards the edge, "iron pillar"), not tsuke-nobi (extend when "kicked"), not a nobi that "bumps against" the opponent (though I see a lot of this in Invincible), not pushing along in contact with the opponent's stones. Just a plain nobi. Looking at Sensei's Library the plain nobi might be called "narabi" (並び). Maybe Shusaku picked this up from Shuwa but I will have to review more games to see if that's the case.

Black 13 is the first time I was astounded by Shusaku, living up to his "slow and steady" style.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$m5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . f . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . 4 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . 9 7 . 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is a game with Yasui Sanchi 7D in 1843 when Shusaku was 3D. Black won without counting. Miyamoto Naoki 9D says "black 13 is a very calm response to White 12." I wondered whether it could be called a "response" at all, but Miyamoto explains "Black 13 creates the threat of a severe invasion by Black at 'f.' Strengthening oneself before attacking is an important principle -- White would have much less trouble dealing with the invasion at 'f' if the black group at the bottom were weak." Seems like useful advice.

-------------------

Black 51 is another example in another game against Yasui Sanchi, this time in 1849 when Shusaku was 6D.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$m45
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . X . O . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . . 4 2 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 9 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 5 . . |
$$ | . . O O O . X . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . O . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ishida Yoshio says that Black 51 is "The most efficient move." But is it really? I would not have guessed so. Especially since Ishida had just said White did not cut between 45 and 47 with 50 because that would be "unreasonable" and that "White's prospects in the fight would be poor." Though maybe after 50 in the corner, 51 works well with 49.

Also is Black 49 an example of the L-shape that Shuei was fond of it was it something different?

I'll keep my eye out for more nobis.

_________________
㋷ ㋣ ㋢

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #13 Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:55 am 
Oza

Posts: 3032
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 4089
Quote:
I'll keep my eye out for more nobis.


Here are some examples to get you going. They are from the friend who devised the hula-hoop word "Shuwaian" (my first inclination was to say Shuvian, along the same lines as Shaw >> Shavian, but ...). They assume you have access to the GoGoD books or database.

The first example is in the book Brilliance and was not actually played. It is part of the Jowa pipe-suji story and variation on page 37, Diag 14. (This example is exactly the same as the sanbon nobi move in the Ohashi-Terayama book.) A significant point is that Shuwa pointed out this variation when he just 15. It was evidently in his DNA.

Other examples are 1844-10-13 (move 38), 1845-12-15b (96), and 1846-06-04a (91). These are moves "only Shuwa could have made," though Shuei kept this sort of move in the family, and one example is 1903-11-22 (45). (Shuei's L-shapes are distinguished by focusing on the centre, not the side.)

There are some nice nobis by great players in old Chinese games, where keeping stones connected was probably also a DNA thing because of group tax. See 1640HLS076 (63) or 1740HCEM078 (81).

Almost all types of moves have distinctive inherent properties, and a lot can be said about them. The Nihon Ki-in produced a series of books with each devoted to a single type of move (e.g. hane) or sometimes a couple of related types. In the latest Go World, Rin Kanketsu has revived this way of looking at go with the three KAs (kake, kata and kado) or the "naname stones". It may or not be a coincidence that his name also begins KA, but he makes the point that these have all become more important in the AI age - they share the characteristic that they are played diagonally to an opponent's stone. Several of us have remarked here that bots like to play contact moves, and have pointed out that this was characteristic also of, say, Go Seigen. But contact plays let the opponent counter-attack with wrap-around moves such as hanes, and you can end up getting sucked into a long-term Afghanistan-type situation with no clear idea of how to ever get out with sente. With the naname moves there is no such counter-attack or entrapment. You retain sente - and bots LURVE sente.

Incidentally, Rin also adds that previous thinking about the kake is that it was just for moyo building (not thickness BTW - at least not what a pro calls thickness, and he gives an example of the false thinking). But AI has shown that the kake has a wider use. I've never bothered with reading Rin's stuff before, but I now see I've been missing a lot. Luckily this latest episode is Part 17 of a series, so I've got lots to look forward to.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #14 Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:53 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 196
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 26
Rank: OGS 6K
GD Posts: 56
KGS: CDavis7M
OGS: CDavis7M
John Fairbairn wrote:
Here are some examples to get you going...
I don't have access to Brilliance but I do have GoGoD. And hopefully a copy of Masao Sugiuchi's book on Shuwa soon. There was a lone copy of Brilliance/Power on a European website a year ago but I waited too long.

Thanks for sharing these plays. Move 38 of Shuwa's 1844 game is astounding. Just like move 13 of Shusaku's game in 1843 game. Shusaku had already played a few games with Shuwa. Surely they were all studying together. Shuwa's nobi at move 38 is just unthinkable. I'd never be able to calculate it's usefulness. And Shuwa played it with White! It does seem to setup his later attack on the nearby group. And Shuwa did win a lot. There must be something to it. I printed these games out and I'll play them later.

One thing that was unclear to me from Meijin of Meijins, did Hayashi Sheui live in the Hayashi house? Or study with the Hayashi disciples? Whoever they were. It seems like he was never there. So was he really just a Honinbo disciple the whole time?

--------------------

John Fairbairn wrote:
In the latest Go World, Rin Kanketsu has revived this way of looking at go with the three KAs (kake, kata and kado) or the "naname stones".

It took me awhile but you must already have the September issue and be talking about 読み切り特大講座. I'll check it out. Some types of articles work better with machine translation than others.

_________________
㋷ ㋣ ㋢

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Review: Meijin of Meijins
Post #15 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:50 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 196
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 26
Rank: OGS 6K
GD Posts: 56
KGS: CDavis7M
OGS: CDavis7M
John Fairbairn wrote:
Here are some examples to get you going. They are from the friend who devised the hula-hoop word "Shuwaian" (my first inclination was to say Shuvian, along the same lines as Shaw >> Shavian, but ...). They assume you have access to the GoGoD books or database.

I found a game of Shuwa's (in M.Sugiuchi's book) that doesn't appear to be in the GoGoD database which reminds me of Shuei's "island vacation" with Kim Ok-yun. This vacation was when Shuei supposedly studied "10,000 fusekis" on his own. I didn't think much of Shuei's studies until I connected the dots between this game of Shuwa's and this quote from Shuwa in Shuho's Hoen Shinpo:
Quote:
The Master once told his pupils, “When I am at the board I dare say I am no stronger than all of you, but in every game I vary the openings a lot so that the same position never comes up again because of fixed opening patterns. This is the only way I differ from you.” The fact that the top players of that period, Ito Showa, Ota Yuzo and so on, all took the handicap of first move against this master is probably because of his predilection for changing the shapes as in this opening."

Here's a game where a younger Shuwa plays the 4-4 point against Yashi Shuntetsu (Sanchi IX). This might be the first (Japanese professional) occurrence of the 4-4 point being chosen over a 3-4 point in the opening. There is an even earlier example where Shuwa on black play a 4-4 point in an empty corner in the late-opening/middle game (that one is in GoGoD).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Anyway, there certainly seems to be similarities between Shuei's Go and his father, Shuwa's Go. I wonder if his study of "10,000 fusekis" was his attempt to re-discover what Shuwa had learned. I've seen a game where Shusaku played the 4-4. I'll have to see about Shuei. It would be interesting to know whether Shuwa or Shuei's fuseki studies ever considered a direct 3-3 incasion of the 4-4. Would it would be one of the 10,000?

I have copied the SGF file here but the ranks should be ignored. I copied a different sgf originally and now I can't edit the ranks on OGS and I get an error when trying to upload again.

https://online-go.com/game/36880592

_________________
㋷ ㋣ ㋢

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group