It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:49 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #21 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:06 am 
Oza

Posts: 3647
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4626
Quote:
thankfully Davies introduced 'snapback' to the English terminology.


Where is your source for this? Snapback as a go term is even in Kenkyusha, at least since 1974. And futokoro is in the Go Almanac. Both books in English.

For oi-otoshi 'connect-and-die' seems well established among English speakers.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #22 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:10 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
SoDesuNe, without knowing such terms or having seen related examples, players do not think about the good moves related to the techniques. E.g., IIRC, I learnt about approach blocks and internal liberty shortages only as a 3 dan. As a kyu player, I had no idea of their existence, because the English literature had no names for them and problem books for kyus did not show (enough) related examples.

This is a severe contrast to the importance of these techniques. A noteworthy percentage of problems involves variations with them. IOW, they are basic techniques, which are better learnt early rather than late.

John, during the ICOB 2001, IIRC Charles Matthews gave a speech about the history of English go terms, and he mentioned that Davies was the one to invent 'snapback'. I cannot verify this, but this is where I got the information from.

EDIT: connect-and-die I saw today for the first time on Sensei's. Maybe it is well established in the UK?:)


Last edited by RobertJasiek on Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #23 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:19 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2221
Location: Germany
Liked others: 8262
Was liked: 924
Rank: OGS 9k
OGS: trohde
Universal go server handle: trohde
Re: oi-otoshi

First, I didn’t find “oi-otoshi” was hard to remember—quite the contrary: after reading it for the first time, I never forgot it.

Then, aside from the onomatopoetic and funny “bata-bata” that sometimes seems to be used colloquially, why not simply call it “Connect and lose even more”? Five words that say it all, that’s how I explain it to my Go kids, and nobody has ever needed more explanation.

Greetz, Tom

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS? :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #24 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:27 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
"Connect and lose even more" or "series of ataris" are descriptive, but are not easily recognised as terms, because these phrases can occur also with other meanings (such as using a series of ataris as forcing moves before doing something else). "liberty shortage" is more specific and encourages the idea of the fate self-atari / cannot-escape-from-atari or suicide.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #25 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:44 am 
Oza

Posts: 2356
Location: Ireland
Liked others: 662
Was liked: 442
Universal go server handle: Boidhre
We just say "connect and die". It's not precise but no one seems to be confused by it.


This post by Boidhre was liked by: Bonobo
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #26 Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:18 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
John Fairbairn wrote:
I found the sentence "reduces by connecting" very odd English. An intransitive usage made no sense, and the assumption that it's transitive with ellipsis for the object is defied by the context shown.


I have become curious how often this verb is used (in)transitively in the book. So here are the statistics of occurrences of the verb 'reduce' in the book:

    * 14 occurrences of transitive use. ("reduces the eyespace")
    * 10 occurrences of directional use, the object is unambiguously given in the same sentence or the described diagram(s). ("reduce from the outside")
    * 6 occurrences of intransitive use, the object is unambiguously given in the same sentence or the described diagram(s). ("Black reduces and creates a nakade.")
    * 0 other intransitive use.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #27 Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:05 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 448
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 187
Rank: BGA 3 dan
RobertJasiek wrote:
John, during the ICOB 2001, IIRC Charles Matthews gave a speech about the history of English go terms, and he mentioned that Davies was the one to invent 'snapback'. I cannot verify this, but this is where I got the information from.


Robert, you do not recall correctly. "Snapback", IIRC, is a term from financial markets. I don't know who first applied it to go.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #28 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:46 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1581
Location: Hong Kong
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 544
GD Posts: 1292
Charles Matthews wrote:
RobertJasiek wrote:
John, during the ICOB 2001, IIRC Charles Matthews gave a speech about the history of English go terms, and he mentioned that Davies was the one to invent 'snapback'. I cannot verify this, but this is where I got the information from.


Robert, you do not recall correctly. "Snapback", IIRC, is a term from financial markets. I don't know who first applied it to go.

Charles, you do not recall correctly. I can't find "Snapback" on any of the online financial dictionaries I have looked up so far. Even this financial glossary which is billed as the biggest on the internet with over 8,000 entries. Nor is it defined as a financial terms on Wikipedia.

_________________
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #29 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:52 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2011
Location: Groningen, NL
Liked others: 202
Was liked: 1087
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
Merriam webster gives (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snapback)

1: a football snap
2: a sudden rebound or recovery <a snapback of prices on the stock exchange>

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #30 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:10 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1581
Location: Hong Kong
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 544
GD Posts: 1292
Thanks HH, but that is using a financial situation to explain the term "snapback" rather than showing "snapback" as being a financial term in and of itself.

_________________
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #31 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:13 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 866
Liked others: 318
Was liked: 345
Cassandra wrote:
If you wanted a reviewer to completely work through your list, it would be necessary to pay her.

A paid-for review is potentially just as biased as one posted by the author himself.

Seriously, I find the title of this thread bizarre. Nobody can objectively review their own book, and nobody should lend such a review any credence whatsoever.

Fortunately, if the title were to change to "Life and Death Problems 1 - Summary" that would mostly solve the problem. Most of the content truly is a summary of the book, rather than a critical review. The only subjective parts that I would remove are:
Quote:
* Printing: good
* Layout: good
* Editing: good
...
* Subjective Rank Improvement: +
* Subjective Topic Coverage: o
* Subjective Aims' Achievement: ++


And I don't even know what those last three mean.

_________________
- Brady
Want to see videos of low-dan mistakes and what to learn from them? Brady's Blunders

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #32 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:29 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
It is not a summary. Maybe, if you dislike "review", a "description of intermediate length".

A self-review is not necessarily objective, and a review is not necessarily objective, either. Among the many reviews of go books I have seen, I do not recall one that would qualify as objective. I think so, because every reviewer makes a choice of what he does or does not discuss and how he evaluates those things he discusses, while he does not provide an objective framework for such evaluation.

The ratings are explained here:
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/isbn.html

***

Regardless of the degree of subjectivity or objectivity of a review or self-review, reviews are open: each of their statements can be read, discussed, compared and possibly evaluated.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Life and Death Problems 1 - Review
Post #33 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:42 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2011
Location: Groningen, NL
Liked others: 202
Was liked: 1087
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
@tchan: I was not trying to correct you, I just posted the dictionary definition because I thought it would be useful to the conversation.

Merriam-Webster also has the example: <the doctor predicted a quick snapback for the rugged young soldier>

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group