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Player styles
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=6250		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Player styles
I'm doing some research for a feature for Kaya regarding playing styles.

Definitely one assesses playing styles all the time : from people you watch to people you play. Its part of our identity as a player.

I wonder now, what kind of styles are possible, or interesting. I found a senseis page on it that was wildly comic-like, which is not what im looking for.

In general i find most style descriptors can go one way or another

Examples:
passive - agressive
influence-oriented - territory-oriented
creative - orthodox
knowledgeable(wisdomy?) - intuitive

I dont like descriptors like "Brilliant" or "exceptional". Id go for things that can be balanced (or tilt one way or another). But i can be persuaded :)

Also, i worry about descriptors with negative connotation, for example:

raw/brute/crass - elegant.
rush - patient

These are not styles, but a measure of ability

How would you like your own style to be defined?
What kind of style information would you like to read from another player?
Author:  oren [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
How about random style?
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
oren wrote:
How about random style?


Whats the opposite of random?
Author:  Tryss [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Random <> Boring (predictable)
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Tryss wrote:
Random <> Boring (predictable)


lol.

Well, boring-"exciting" definitely has negative connotation, so its not a style.

Now, the opposite of predictable is just unpredictable :). Doesnt look like an interesting descriptor.
Also predictable could be negative, as in "i know everything he is going to play". That usually means you are stronger.

We might be missing something like "cunning - transparent", which i dont know how to phrase to eliminate negative connotation.

Another:
Tactical - Strategical.

Also something that describes a usually attacking player to a sabaki-shinogi like player. Chochikun is resourceful, Kato masao is ?

Also, what about describing fuseki, fighting or yose preferences?
Author:  shapenaji [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Kaya.gs wrote:
Tryss wrote:
Random <> Boring (predictable)


lol.

Well, boring-"exciting" definitely has negative connotation, so its not a style.

Now, the opposite of predictable is just unpredictable :). Doesnt look like an interesting descriptor.
Also predictable could be negative, as in "i know everything he is going to play". That usually means you are stronger.

We might be missing something like "cunning - transparent", which i dont know how to phrase to eliminate negative connotation.

Another:
Tactical - Strategical.

Also something that describes a usually attacking player to a sabaki-shinogi like player. Chochikun is resourceful, Kato masao is ?

Also, what about describing fuseki, fighting or yose preferences?


A few more styles:

Moyo, Amashi, Territorial, Cosmic

Are you planning on finding quantitative tools for assigning these monikers?
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
shapenaji wrote:
Kaya.gs wrote:
Tryss wrote:
Random <> Boring (predictable)


lol.

Well, boring-"exciting" definitely has negative connotation, so its not a style.

Now, the opposite of predictable is just unpredictable :). Doesnt look like an interesting descriptor.
Also predictable could be negative, as in "i know everything he is going to play". That usually means you are stronger.

We might be missing something like "cunning - transparent", which i dont know how to phrase to eliminate negative connotation.

Another:
Tactical - Strategical.

Also something that describes a usually attacking player to a sabaki-shinogi like player. Chochikun is resourceful, Kato masao is ?

Also, what about describing fuseki, fighting or yose preferences?


A few more styles:

Moyo, Amashi, Territorial, Cosmic

Are you planning on finding quantitative tools for assigning these monikers?



There's already influence-oriented <=> territory-oriented.

Im certainly missing this sabaki-doer <=> attacker in the balance.
Author:  C. Blue [ Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Hm, maybe "solid - fast".
Solid would emphasize thickness, while fast emphasizes speed of development and creates more light stones.
Author:  Fizyx [ Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
C. Blue wrote:
Hm, maybe "solid - fast".
Solid would emphasize thickness, while fast emphasizes speed of development and creates more light stones.


I would change the terms to "Thick - Quick".... But that's just cause it makes me laugh for some reason :P
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Fizyx wrote:
C. Blue wrote:
Hm, maybe "solid - fast".
Solid would emphasize thickness, while fast emphasizes speed of development and creates more light stones.


I would change the terms to "Thick - Quick".... But that's just cause it makes me laugh for some reason :P


Too much connotation :).

I like resourceful for players that usually like sabaki, but i dont have a word that is clearly opposite, for those that like to settle positions
Author:  Toge [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
How do you measure these styles? I think style is tied to playing strength. Players tend to have the style that reflects the things they have learned about. Seeing the options is the pre-requisite to having a preference, but we can't know what the player saw.
Author:  Sumatakyo [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Kaya.gs wrote:

Im certainly missing this sabaki-doer <=> attacker in the balance.


Just thought I'd mention that when I watch NHK commentaries they call the opposite of attacker the person that "shinogi's".
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Sumatakyo wrote:
Kaya.gs wrote:

Im certainly missing this sabaki-doer <=> attacker in the balance.


Just thought I'd mention that when I watch NHK commentaries they call the opposite of attacker the person that "shinogi's".


Shinogi is not bad, but people wont know what it is. Still, what is the opposite of shinogi? :)
Author:  karaklis [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Kaya.gs wrote:
Shinogi is not bad, but people wont know what it is. Still, what is the opposite of shinogi? :)

I think shinogi is well known enough. I'd say the opposite is moyo-style. Who doesn't know the famous shinogi-vs-moyo games of Cho Chikun vs. Takemiya Masaki.
Author:  Actorios [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Funny, my understanding of shinogi is that it is the contrary of sabaki: one is die hard, live within, the other is play light and erode, given a situation, you may want or play one or the other. A simpler way of stating it is invade vs. reduce even if the meaning is not the same. Of course, it's not invade or reduce but some player would invade in positions where others would not.
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Actorios wrote:
Funny, my understanding of shinogi is that it is the contrary of sabaki: one is die hard, live within, the other is play light and erode, given a situation, you may want or play one or the other. A simpler way of stating it is invade vs. reduce even if the meaning is not the same. Of course, it's not invade or reduce but some player would invade in positions where others would not.


Well, there is something like "daring" or "risk-taker" , and "careful" or "thoughtful"
Author:  Actorios [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
I agree with your recommendation : something like secure vs. daring.

By the way, I like a lot your idea of defining styles by scale. It looks like a Myers-Briggs of go players.
Author:  hyperpape [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
I do not think secure vs. daring can be mapped to shinogi. After all, attacks can be daring or secure (restrained).
Author:  Archivist [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
kill <=> preserve

cut <=> connect
Author:  Kaya.gs [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Player styles
Archivist wrote:
kill <=> preserve

cut <=> connect


Those arent styles..they are actions.
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