I thought you could get Korean television stations in the US that cover go. Or would that involve staying up too late?

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Occupy Babel!

i haven't heard such. so probably not true.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Some years ago people on the west coast of the USA could get satellite signals for TV from Japan. Don't know about Korea. As the population of Korean immigrants in the USA increases it might be possible to get satellite TV from Korea.

Yeah, me too. I've even seen them cover dominoes tournaments and hotdog eating contests (Sorry, I mean competitive eating). Go has to at least be as much of a sport as hotdog eating :/

Edit: dominoes, not backgammon

Actually I understand.
The term "banana" is sometimes used to label fluent English speakers who are of Chinese descent, who speak little or no Chinese. In short, yellow outside but white inside.

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My homepages: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Unkx80 and http://yeefan.sg/.

"Mailman" or not, I think that calling people that have Korean blood but don't speak Korean "garbage" is going too far.

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be immersed

I agree. Besides, there are plenty of people of mixed "blood" in Korea who were born there and speak only Korean:

*Children of Korean/Japanese parentage from the time of the occupation

*Children of Korean/Chinese parentage from the time of the Korean war

*Children of Korean/American parentage from the Korean war and after

I suppose there is discrimination against all these "impure" people but I doubt that there are any really "pure" Koreans. As for "pure" Americans there certainly aren't any. Even the Native Americans came from Asia originally.

Actually there is no such thing as "pure" blood for any "race". Hasn't it been shown scientifically that (almost) all existing humans share mitochondrial DNA with a single woman in Africa? This idea of "purity" is bogus. The idea of racial purity is very dangerous. Look what happened in Europe some 70 years ago.

On the offchance this one starts to escalate, I'm going to step in here just to voice my opinion:

I don't agree personally with magicwand's feelings towards how he classifies people as Korean, and don't understand the viewpoint. I do however respect the fact he was honest enough to share it candidly and explicitly, with the necessary caveats to this being just how he internalises it, and that he makes an effort not to express those feelings to people in person. In this thread, I saw it as an honest contribution to the thread on what's being felt by many (I'm not trying to make a sweeping generalisation here, it may be few, but clearly at least 1!) Koreans - an insight most non-Koreans wouldn't have, and the followup by unkx80 I also found valuable for the same reason.

I didn't see magicwand as actually insulting anyone directly, and I feel fairly sure that wasn't the intent. However, I also respect there will be people on here that either are, or know others, who fit into magicwand's garbage category. If this is deemed offensive by many, I'm sure the thread can be handled accordingly, but can I just make a plea not to let this escalate just based on disliking the prejudice on others, as we have so far managed a really good track record of handling these debates civilly.

I knew i would get some reaction out of what i posted..
main reasone for the post is to inform others how many (probably most) koreans think.
but now i think what i said in public was inappropriate.
apologize to everyone whom i might have offended.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

I think it's fine for you to be honest. However, I am somewhat skeptical that "most" Koreans think this way.

I am pretty sure that my wife does not share the same opinion as you. She might consider it a good thing for people of Korean heritage to learn to speak Korean, but I highly doubt that she would consider those that don't "garbage". I'll admit I haven't asked her yet, though. I will have to ask her when she wakes up.

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be immersed

I wondered this too - although if you already going to ask her, I also wonder how much "male pride" may come into it too, and I would be interested if she thought that this might be typical amongst Korean men

Looks like some clarification is in order. Personally, I do not hold the view that someone who is of Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent who do not read or speak Chinese/Japanese/Korean is "garbage", or whatever term you may choose. However, I can understand that there are significant numbers of people who hold such views, and I have an inkling why. China/Japan/Korea have very long histories, and these people would somewhat rightfully think that their respective language and culture should be upheld and therefore all people of their descent should at least be conversant in their own language.

U.S. is essentially an immigrant country. It import people from all over the world and create a culture of their own. It even has its own brand of English called "American English". I don't think the prevalent culture of U.S. has a long history, and probably this is why some members of this forum has difficulty understanding this viewpoint.

Just my two cents.

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My homepages: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Unkx80 and http://yeefan.sg/.

you have a point there..

i have seen many marriage with korean women and non-korean men but not other way.
i guess korean men usually want korean women as their mate and korean women are more open minded than korean men.

from what i experienced out of korean culture... if some korean men speak korean with funny accent they do not like them... they = korean men

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

While I can't really condone the content here, I think you did a good job presenting it in a useful and as non-inflammatory way as possible.

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That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Okay, so I had a pretty long conversation about this with my wife to gain some perspective on her view, as another Korean person, to provide some additional insight.

First of all, she was very, very surprised at the use of the word "garbage". She could not believe that this term was used, and even considered the possibility that Magicwand may not actually be Korean, but rather someone that is trying to promote a particular image of Korea - this was just a speculation, though. I don't think that she strongly felt this way.

Secondly, she pointed out that things are very different in Korea now than they were 50 or 100 years ago. A long time ago, there may not have been many Koreans that traveled or had families abroad, so they might have held a stronger feeling that Korean people should speak Korean. She pointed out that, even then, they would not use the word "garbage". Rather, they might just strongly feel that a person of Korean blood *should* know how to speak Korean.

Nowadays, things are different. There is a much wider spectrum of situations. There are Korean families that immigrate to other countries, especially so that their children might learn English.

She says that she believes that the "general feeling" - which still varies from individual to individual - is that it is quite *admirable* if somebody can speak Korean fluently, even though they grew up in a country that doesn't speak Korean. She said that there may still be individuals that have a strong sense that people of Korean blood *should* speak Korean, but this is certainly not as strong of a feeling as it was 50 years ago. She also pointed out that many Korean people that are living abroad are actually MORE conservative than Koreans that are living in Korea. This is because Korea is dynamically changing, and those that live there change, too. But those that were in Korea a long time ago and then move abroad might think more like Koreans of the past.

She suggested that, while she doesn't know Magicwand's particular case, he may be more conservative than people actually living in Korea right now, if he has been abroad for a long time.

Then she made a couple of other points:
1.) A common scenario these days is for a Korean family to be living abroad - in the USA, for example. They might have a child in the USA and speak to them in Korean. The child may become pretty fluent in Korean at a young age. But then, they go to an English speaking school, and speak only English. It's not uncommon for such kids to forget how to speak Korean well. Does this mean that they used to be Koreans, but now they are not? She thought that this was a silly idea.

2.) More than language, she thinks that what a Korean thinks of his or her heritage is important. If a "Korean-blooded person" is completely fluent in Korean but hates Korea, bringing up points about why Korea is stupid, and so on, then she would consider a non-Korean speaking "Korean-blooded person" that admired his or her heritage to be "more Korean". She said that the heritage and way of living (respect for elders, etc.) was more important to her than the language itself.

3.) There are a wide spectrum of beliefs, so she cannot speak for all Korean people - she is just one person. But she said that people are certainly a lot more open to "Korean-blooded" people not speaking Korean these days. These days it is more like, "Oh, it's wonderful that you can speak both Korean and English" rather than, "Shame on you! You should speak Korean since you are of Korean blood", like it was 50 years ago. She said that in both cases, she is appalling to hear somebody referred to as "garbage".

4.) She *did* say that she can understand the viewpoint that a Korean blooded person that doesn't speak Korean isn't really a "Korean person" as much as somebody that speaks Korean, too. However, again, she pointed out that she thought that respecting Korean heritage and the way of conduct is more a part of being a Korean person than speaking the language. If you have a "Korean-blooded", Korean speaking person, but they don't respect their parents, and act in a bad way, she thinks that this is worse than not learning the language.

So basically, from her perspective, it is admirable for a person to learn the Korean language, even though they are living abroad. It's a pretty cool thing, she thinks. But calling somebody garbage is not really comprehendible. Some conservative Korean people may still feel strongly that a Korean person *should* speak Korean (and this was more the case 50 years ago), but if a person doesn't, it doesn't take away from their quality of being. There is, however, a difference between a person that can speak Korean and a person that cannot - native speaking Koreans can relate more to somebody that speaks their own language. But I think that's a very natural thought.

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention, she brought up that fluency is hard to define. Is somebody that can communicate in Korean, but sometimes makes grammar mistakes, less of a Korean? She thought that this was a silly idea. She said that the spectrum of situations is quite broad these days.

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be immersed

You might find that judging people on their character instead of their language and or parentage is a better way to go.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're doing yourselves any favors by expressing these views.

thank you for your info.
i guess i have been here more than 30 years ...so i guess i am conservative.

i will give you one good example your wife might understand.
there was a violinist named Eugine Park who became famous and often showed himself on a TV show in korea.
although he can only communicate at a 5 year old level korean he did many interviews on TV he did most interviews in Korean.
i am sure there are many people who made fun of his accent and i was one of them.
"na Eugine Park yi ya." <--this is one of my impersonation i did to make fun of him.
his accent and lack of korean understanding made me think I rather watch his interview in English than Korean.

yes i may be conservative but i am thinking kirby's wife is a liberal.
or i guess we can call it a generation gap between her and magicwand.

or maybe i am too old.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

I'll ask her about it.

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be immersed

There's a lot of pressure in the Western world not to be racist. I think this is a good thing. I would honestly like to see the same kind of pressure applied by other cultures. This purity talk is neither funny nor cute. It leads to hatred and violence.

How would you react if I said:

I discriminate against people who have pure blood and don't speak a word of English. i consider them GARBAGE.

@Kirby: Many thanks for your post. It is very interesting, and it's good to know the perspective of another Korean.

@TominNJ: Perhaps you should read my clarification post above. I repeat, I do not hold such views, but I understand that other people do hold such views, which I accept.

FYI: The Chinese also use the term "egg" to refer to Westerners (white) who are Chinese (yellow) in heart. As opposed to "banana", this term is typically used in a complementary sense.

Further reading (in Chinese):
http://baike.baidu.com/view/16419.htm (banana)
http://baike.baidu.com/view/174462.htm (egg)

I guess I'll make this my last post in this thread. It's getting a bit out of hand.

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My homepages: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Unkx80 and http://yeefan.sg/.