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Self-Confidence
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4626		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Kirby [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Self-Confidence
The other day, I asked a coworker how I was perceived by him at work. I wanted to know what he thought of the way I worked, my attitude, etc.

He told me that he perceived me as having low self confidence. When he said this, my immediate thought was, "So what? It doesn't matter if I show humility at work - the truth will prevail. If I really know what I'm doing at work, then it will show itself.

But I wonder about how much humility is good to have. Sometimes I do not like when others appear to lack humility, and exaggerate their abilities. I do not want to be this way, so I feel that I am being humble when I act modest about what I know - or admit my uncertainty in a particular area.

But I wonder if this is the right thing to do at a company. Is what I feel to be humility really simply a lack of self-confidence?

And if I'm lacking self-confidence, how do I get some?
Author:  Li Kao [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
I got the same impression from watching your malko games. Especially the older ones.

Being humble one knows what one doesn't know. But you should also think of what you do know.
Author:  Toge [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
"Rank: Malkovich 17k"

That's one thing that often strikes my eye. You no longer have rank of KGS, but you've beaten 2ds on even game in the past. Why do you denigrate your abilities like that? Frankly I think it hides prideful feelings. If you're playing a game and lose it, which line your opponent would like to hear from you:

"You played well, I lost fair and square."
"I'm just so weak, I made mistakes and failed. It's no surprise you won."

Two sides of coin. One is good-mannered, the other bordering offensive. Lack of self-confidence is negative aura like this. Not only does it bring down your self, it bring down other people around you as well.
Author:  Kirby [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
Toge wrote:
... the other bordering offensive. Lack of self-confidence is negative aura like this. Not only does it bring down your self, it bring down other people around you as well.


I had not considered this. Thank you for bringing it up.
Author:  Solomon [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
Learn to not give a damn what people think about you. That, and hitting the gym.
Image
Author:  xed_over [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
low self confidence and humility are not the same.

it is possible to have high self confidence and still be humble about it.
Author:  EdLee [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kirby:
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Toge wrote:
"You played well, I lost fair and square."
"I'm just so weak, I made mistakes and failed. It's no surprise you won."
Here's a third side of the coin:
"I was doing great the whole time; you played terribly -- I only lost because of a silly mistake." <-- One of the worst attitudes IMO. :evil:
Kirby wrote:
And if I'm lacking self-confidence, how do I get some?
One way: confidence comes from the ability to do something. Well. :)
Author:  daal [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
Kirby wrote:

And if I'm lacking self-confidence, how do I get some?


In another thread you started, Gowan recommended a book called Fight Your Fear and Win by Don Greene. In the context of this thread, I'll recommend it again because the book offers practical strategies to deal with your fears, and fear of failing and so forth is what underlies a lack of self-confidence.
Author:  snorri [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
You can do what you want, of course, but you are in an industry that literally rewards arrogance, so being perceived as having low self-confidence isn't going to work in your favor. That doesn't mean that you have to go way off to the other extreme, but a combination of being optimistic and also generous with praise tends not to upset people. Toot your own horn, you must---but if you also celebrate others' successes, you can avoid coming off as a jerk.

If you look at a lot of companies' web pages, a ridiculous fraction of them will contain a phrase like "X is the leading provider of Y" when truthfully, no such claim can be made. But somehow this is accepted. It's like saying "world's best donuts." You can't have a brand that says, "We're pretty small and are just kind of flying by the seat of our pants right now. Please hire us!"

To me, your attitude toward go often shows that you are hard-working, tenacious and no-nonsense. Those are positives even if other things creep in. If that is true and you also see yourself that way, you can lead with that and still have humility in the right places and it would be a fine personal brand. A personal brand starts with examining your core values. That way it will seem less like a facade or an act and more authentic. But in the end, it's still kind of an act.

It sounds really cool to say that you don't care what others think, but the truth is that if you depend on other people for anything, what they think does matter. If you want people to invest in your ideas, what they think matters. If you want help in your career, what they think matters.
Author:  tj86430 [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
As others have already pointed out, I think humility is one thing and low self-confidence is another. Humility has more to do about how you act towards others, whereas self-confidence is how you feel about yourself. You can have extremely high self-confidence, yet be very humble (although it may be rare).

Usually, it is good to have a high (but not unrealistically high) self-confidence, because it helps you to perform to the maximum of your abilities. I do not know if it can be learned, I have always believed it is more or less a part of your personality. I do know, that your environment can boost or hurt your self-confidence though; if you get constant positive feedback, your self-confidence is likely to grow, OTOH, if your get constant negative feedback, it will probably be hurt (but within the limits set by your personality)

Humility is entirely different, but somewhat correlating, thing. If you have low self-confidence, you are very likely to appear humble (because your self-confidence doesn't "allow" anything else). OTOH people with high self-confidence can be humble, but can also be very pompous and arrogant. Usually it is considered good behavior to act humble, but sometimes too much humility can be a bad thing, too (e.g. if you are in a meeting where someone more senior than you suggests something stupid, the humble person may say nothing, while the less humble may contradict him).

Finally two important disclaimers:
1. I do nothing about psychology, the above is solely what I think about the subject
2. English is not my native language, so the above is based on my understanding of what words like "humble" and "self-confident" mean.
Author:  Mivo [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
snorri wrote:
ou can't have a brand that says, "We're pretty small and are just kind of flying by the seat of our pants right now. Please hire us!"


I think you could. In fact, I believe many customers are sick and tired of the "We are the best!" and "Our products are #1 in the world!" slogans. Same old, tired, exaggerated stuff that everyone knows is almost never true, and it's a little insulting to the potential customer's intelligence.

I'd also never hire someone who displays (usually fake) self-confidence that borders to arrogance. People who know what they do (and do it), yes. People who are all talk, show and "look at me!", no. I like real people, and while I agree that Kirby could need some "hey, I'm actually a pretty cool, competent, intelligent and above all: sensitive and sensible guy" thinking, I much prefer his "quieter" approach over people who hide behind a facade or wear a mask half the time you interact with them.
Author:  daal [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
Slogan of 105.9, the classic rock radio station in Chicago: "Of all the radio stations in Chicago...we're one of them."
Author:  hyperpape [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
There's a line of thought that no humble man thinks he is humble, only someone who is arrogant or depressed thinks so.

I don't agree, but I'll throw it out there.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
I think I said it before in a similar thread, but I'll try again. I don't agree with your usage of "humble". Deliberately downplaying your abilities is not humility. Humility, in my mind, involves being completely honest with yourself about your abilities. How would you treat a coworker/go player with your accomplishments? Granted, it is hard to be objective about that. But you don't appear to be trying, you seem to be actively trying to believe you're worse at things than you actually are.

That, IMO, is your brain's way of making you feel good when you subsequently get an average (for you) result. It's like politicians claiming Iowa doesn't matter, or that they don't expect to do well there-- so that when they get an average result everyone will be impressed. That's not humility, it's managing expectations. Your brain is playing politics with you.

Humble people, in my book, are people that know exactly how good they are at whatever. They use that knowledge to consciously avoid lording it over you if they are better than you at a task, and don't sulk in the corner about it if they are worse than you at a task. The point is to avoid hurting the feelings of others unnecessarily. If someone is offended just by you having superior skills, that is their problem and not something you should try to fix by pretending to be worse than you are.
Author:  flOvermind [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
tj86430 wrote:
As others have already pointed out, I think humility is one thing and low self-confidence is another. Humility has more to do about how you act towards others, whereas self-confidence is how you feel about yourself. You can have extremely high self-confidence, yet be very humble (although it may be rare).


I disagree.

Excessive bragging is often a sign of low self-confidence: You constantly try to show others how good you are. But mostly, you're trying to show it to yourself, because you're not sure whether you're really any good.
Humility often naturally arises from extremely high self-confidence: Why should you tell someone how good you are? No need to point out the obvious.

Of course, the other two combinations exist, too, but I actually think the two "opposite" combinations are far more common, at least if the so-called "self-confidence" is real :P
Author:  hyperpape [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
Very well said, Daniel. I'd add only that being humble isn't just about how your outward behavior, but also your thoughts. If Usain Bolt is humble, then he knows that he's the fastest sprinter on Earth, but he doesn't walk around thinking "I'm the fastest" all day long.
Author:  Kirby [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
Thanks a lot to everyone that's replied so far.

There seems to be a variety of different opinions in this thread, so to make it more clear in my mind, I have attempted to concisely summarize each of the responses that people have given. If I've misinterpreted anything, please feel free to correct me:
* I should think of what I DO know.
* Downplaying myself hurts others.
* Don't care what others think.
* Wrong definition of humility.
* To overcome this, I must learn to do something well.
* Read "Fight Your Fear and Win"
* I need therapy.
* In industry, it's necessary to brag. But also recognize others.
* I should become a go bum.
* Humility and low self confidence are not the same.
* Some people in industry actually do prefer not bragging about yourself.
* 105.9 is a cool radio station (OK, my interpretation).
* Better hire somebody that is nice. That's most important.
* I'm not humble if I think I'm humble.
* Wrong definition of humble. I'm not humble. My brain is compensating for my averageness.
* Humility can come from extremely high self-confidence.

---

If I organize these comments by subject (based on my feeling), I get something like the following:
* Wrong definition of humility.
* Humility and low self confidence are not the same.
* I'm not humble if I think I'm humble.
* Wrong definition of humble. I'm not humble. My brain is compensating for my averageness.
* Humility can come from extremely high self-confidence.

* Downplaying myself hurts others.

* I should think of what I DO know.

* Don't care what others think.

* In industry, it's necessary to brag. But also recognize others.
* Some people in industry actually do prefer not bragging about yourself.
* Better hire somebody that is nice. That's most important.

* Read "Fight Your Fear and Win"

* To overcome this, I must learn to do something well.

* 105.9 is a cool radio station (OK, my interpretation).

* I need therapy.
* I should become a go bum.

---

If I try to follow all of this advice, I have the following potential steps I can take:
1.) Realize that I am not really humble, and am hurting others around me with such behavior.

2.) Try to feel good about what I DO know, and about what I CAN do well. This means that I must learn to do things well.

3.) On the job and off, I should recognize others for their achievements. I should congratulate them when they do well, for example.

4.) I should read "Fight Your Fear and Win".

5.) I should listen to 105.9.

6.) I should get therapy and become a go bum.

7.) I should not care what others think.

---

That's a lot of steps, so if I consider what I can do in the immediate future, on a practical level, I can think of the following action plan:

1.) Recognize others for what they do. Encourage them, and admit their skills.

2.) Study harder to learn to do what I do well. Do whatever I can to do my best.

3.) Read "Fight your Fear and Win", and listen to 105.9.

4.) Don't care about what others think.

The other suggestions are good, but I'll focus mostly on these three items for now.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
I would emend that to, "My brain is compensating for my self-perceived averageness."
Author:  Kirby [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Self-Confidence
daniel_the_smith wrote:
I would emend that to, "My brain is compensating for my self-perceived averageness."


Haha. That's kind of funny. Thanks, though.
Author:  EdLee [ Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kirby wrote:
Don't care about what others think...
Kirby, like all proverbs, we need to know when it applies and when it doesn't. :)
What Feynman meant but didn't say, of course, was:
...when you know you're right and they're wrong;
...unless they're right and you're wrong (or when they have better ideas than you.)
(More generally and importantly, knowing what is right and what is wrong, regardless of who says what.) :mrgreen:
For example, the point of this whole thread and forum is to listen to and share one another's ideas.
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