www.Ootakamoku.com - Modern fuseki practice.

ez4u · **#101**

Ootakamoku wrote:

I've added a ton of tsumegos from numerous sources. Until each tsumego has at least 1 user answer at it they are can be shown to anyone regardless of the rank. But since tsumegos are considered "perfect" (there is known answer) they are prioritized quite high. Hence until the correct level is found for the tsumegos, expect them to pop up frequently. Some because they are right for your rank, others because the tsumego doesn't have an accurate rank yet.

Now I need help from some serious tsumego junkies. One is to just go trough as many tsumegos as possible to get some kind of rank for them. The second part is, if you find a tsumego with an error, please report it here, just use the share link and copy it here. The most likely error is that either tsumego is symmetric but only accepts answer on one side. The other likely choice is that its possible to change the move order from what the tsumego expects.

There should be around 4000 tsumegos.

I tried it before the tsumego were added and now after. IMHO, the tsumego spoil the original concept. Despite all the discussion above, I found the fuseki problems reasonably usable as is, i.e. 'based on actual pro games here are acceptable answers'. Tsumego are quite different. Telling me I am wrong in a particular tsumego without the answer is pretty frustrating. Actually, telling me I am right in a particular tsumego without the answer is also pretty frustrating since I am apparently reasonably good at guessing the 'correct answer' (first move) even when I can not read out the continuation. Since there are many sources of tsumego available elsewhere when I am in the mood, I would greatly appreciate the option to exclude tsumego from the problem sets here.

daal · **#102**

ez4u wrote:

I tried it before the tsumego were added and now after. IMHO, the tsumego spoil the original concept. Despite all the discussion above, I found the fuseki problems reasonably usable as is, i.e. 'based on actual pro games here are acceptable answers'. Tsumego are quite different. Telling me I am wrong in a particular tsumego without the answer is pretty frustrating. Actually, telling me I am right in a particular tsumego without the answer is also pretty frustrating since I am apparently reasonably good at guessing the 'correct answer' (first move) even when I can not read out the continuation. Since there are many sources of tsumego available elsewhere when I am in the mood, I would greatly appreciate the option to exclude tsumego from the problem sets here.

+1

hyperpape · **#103**

I also find the fuseki practice to be what's really exciting.

Ootakamoku · **#104**

Again, the difficulty of tsumegos each tsumego hasn't been established yet. Hence you are shown tsumegos that are too difficult. If tsumegos is such that you can correctly answer it with 80% probability, then it should be easy enough that you will understand why the provided answer is correct. The frustration comes when you are doing a tsumego you have 50% or even just 20% chance of answering correctly. Then after being shown the correct first move, its very likely still too difficult for you to understand.

Also, I will add the possibility of selecting what part of the game to study. Just a few other things I need to make sure works first. As for the different rank for different aspects of the game, that was my plan from the start. Im hoping I will have those available within the next few days.

RBerenguel · **#105**

Stupid question: Oota, the rank estimate is EGF, KGS averaged, depends on your initial estimate...?

Bonobo · **#106**

Yesterday or the day before a panel popped up which asked me for my ranks (several fields for EGF, IGS, KGS, etc.)

LuckyJim · **#107**

Bonobo wrote:

Yesterday or the day before a panel popped up which asked me for my ranks (several fields for EGF, IGS, KGS, etc.)

Hey Tom, Next time it will ask you about your drinking hours.

Keep up the good work Ootakamoku !

Seperate ranks for fuseki, tsumego and yose would be great!

Ootakamoku · **#108**

I thought I added 4000 tsumegos. Looks like I ended up adding 11000. So no wonder lots of tsumegos show up. It might take 3-4 days instead of 1-2 days to get a reasonable difficulty for each tsumego. But once that is done, more fuseki positions should start showing up again.

Right now those ranked dan or at very least strong kyu, are only shown tsumegos, with the exception of those fuseki positions which get evaluated as difficult because weaker players failed to find right answer. I have so far answered 5009 positions myself. I have done more fuseki and tsumegos in last two weeks than last year before that.

Ootakamoku · **#109**

Just like in the fuseki where it provides links to pro games where the position occurred, I will add the same for tsumegos. Linking at very least to sensei's library if it contains the tsumego. I will consider linking to other sources as well.

joellercoaster · **#110**

I've just found this and it. Is. Fantastic. I can't stop doing these.

I am finding the tsumego much harder than the fuseki - but I think that just might mean I have to do more tsumego, and it reflects my experience in games (I go OK in the opening and then get crushed at life and death and territory).

The rank estimation seems extremely generous, like more than a dozen stones different, even after I entered my current OGS rank. But, as

Bill Spight wrote:

IMO, beginners should not bother having a rank (...) They advance so rapidly that thinking of themselves as thus and such rank is more hindrance than help.

it doesn't really matter - the important thing is that it chooses problems that are challenging and interesting me, drilling me on the things I get wrong, and gradually changing to harder ones as I improve. Amazing and useful, thank you for this!

Ootakamoku · **#111**

RBerenguel wrote:

Stupid question: Oota, the rank estimate is EGF, KGS averaged, depends on your initial estimate...?

For now it's combination of all ranking systems. I will separate out different ranking systems later when I have more examples. At which point it will provide you rank on the ranking system your choice.

Ootakamoku · **#112**

RBerenguel wrote:

Stupid question: Oota, the rank estimate is EGF, KGS averaged, depends on your initial estimate...?

For now it's combination of all ranking systems. I will separate out different ranking systems later when I have more examples. At which point it will provide you rank on the ranking system your choice.

RBerenguel · **#113**

Ootakamoku wrote:

RBerenguel wrote:

Stupid question: Oota, the rank estimate is EGF, KGS averaged, depends on your initial estimate...?

For now it's combination of all ranking systems. I will separate out different ranking systems later when I have more examples. At which point it will provide you rank on the ranking system your choice.

So hard to know if my current 4.7-5.1 means my opening is well above my level (8-9k EGF) or spot on (4k KGS) :/

alejo · **#114**

It currently ranks me around 1.6-1.3 kyu, while I'm playing as 5k in KGS.

However, I'd like to explore the solutions somehow. Sometimes, I'd like to check some variations or other sequences on a separate window... not only the ones I failed, but the ones were I succeeded too

joellercoaster · **#115**

Aha. The generosity appears to be dissipating somewhat... my ranking is going down, between consecutive correct answers. I guess this is just having a bigger sample of rated people playing and it's correcting itself?

Way cool.

LuckyJim · **#116**

joellercoaster wrote:

Aha. The generosity appears to be dissipating somewhat... my ranking is going down, between consecutive correct answers. I guess this is just having a bigger sample of rated people playing and it's correcting itself?

Way cool.

Yes I noticed that too, pretty funny, but it is still too generous (has me at 5.6-4.7 Kyu after 162, but OGS has me at 18 and KGS at 12).

wineandgolover · **#117**

I am impressed with those who rate higher on this than their real-world rank. How long do you spend per problem?

I've played with it twice, not thinking too hard, and both times stabilized at a rating well below my KGS rating. Anyone else have this happen to them?

Maybe I should take more time?

LuckyJim · **#118**

wineandgolover wrote:

How long do you spend per problem?

I just try to remember. I do take the time to think about what happened before, leading to the situation. Often you recognize a familiar sequence that way.

Also I am working on a silly list of things to do in the opening, in order of importance:
escape (mutual: my own, or work against opponent's)
live (mutual)
answer kikari
4-3 high kakari (attacking a 4-3 stone one space away on the fourth line)
exception: vs chinese opening do 4-4 kakari
moyo (mutual)
enclosure-extension combined with attack (mutual)
enclosure
split
extension

There have been several situations where attacking a 4-3 stone is better than my enclosing the corner with my 4-3 stone, also depending on other parts of the board, that I did wrong first but score correct now. It is unlike I learned from go books, maybe "modern" ?

I am also interested in other people's approach.

Bonobo · **#119**

wineandgolover wrote:

[..] How long do you spend per problem?

[..]

Usually two seconds at most for Fuseki, perhaps five for Tsumego.

My current ranks: EGF 13k, DGS 11k, OGS 14k, ootakomoku estimates it to be between 9.8 Kyu and 7.6 Kyu

Greetings, Tom

Ootakamoku · **#120**

Here is an estimate on how http://www.Ootakamoku.com ranks translate to other ranking systems. Obviously the more extreme ranks are quite unreliable. Also I wouldn't put too much faith in the AGA and Tygem ranks, as the sample size is quite low for both.

Code:

Oota        GOR      EGF      AGA      KGS      OGS    Tygem
5 Kyu : 29.3 Kyu 29.5 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 21.8 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 29.3 Kyu 28.6 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 21.8 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 29.2 Kyu 27.3 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 21.4 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 28.8 Kyu 26.1 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 20.3 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 27.9 Kyu 24.9 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 19.3 Kyu 30.5 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 26.6 Kyu 23.9 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 18.5 Kyu 30.4 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 25.2 Kyu 22.9 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 17.7 Kyu 30.1 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 23.9 Kyu 21.8 Kyu 30.6 Kyu 16.8 Kyu 29.8 Kyu 28.9 Kyu
5 Kyu : 22.9 Kyu 20.4 Kyu 30.5 Kyu 15.9 Kyu 29.3 Kyu 28.7 Kyu
5 Kyu : 22.1 Kyu 18.9 Kyu 30.1 Kyu 14.7 Kyu 28.7 Kyu 28.0 Kyu
5 Kyu : 21.7 Kyu 17.4 Kyu 29.2 Kyu 13.4 Kyu 27.8 Kyu 27.1 Kyu
5 Kyu : 22.2 Kyu 16.0 Kyu 26.5 Kyu 11.8 Kyu 26.5 Kyu 25.3 Kyu
5 Kyu : 24.7 Kyu 15.2 Kyu 21.7 Kyu 10.3 Kyu 25.5 Kyu 22.0 Kyu
5 Kyu : 24.2 Kyu 15.0 Kyu 21.8 Kyu  9.6 Kyu 25.7 Kyu 18.6 Kyu
5 Kyu :  22.7 Kyu 13.9 Kyu 24.5 Kyu  8.8 Kyu 24.7 Kyu 14.3 Kyu
5 Kyu :  18.8 Kyu 10.8 Kyu 18.4 Kyu  7.8 Kyu 22.0 Kyu 14.1 Kyu
5 Kyu :  15.5 Kyu  9.0 Kyu 14.3 Kyu  7.0 Kyu 19.6 Kyu 12.7 Kyu
5 Kyu :  11.9 Kyu  7.2 Kyu 10.7 Kyu  6.1 Kyu 16.5 Kyu 10.4 Kyu
5 Kyu :   7.9 Kyu  5.4 Kyu  7.0 Kyu  5.3 Kyu 12.8 Kyu  6.4 Kyu
5 Kyu :   4.6 Kyu  3.9 Kyu  3.8 Kyu  4.5 Kyu  9.3 Kyu  1.8 Kyu
5 Kyu :   4.7 Kyu  3.1 Kyu  4.0 Kyu  3.7 Kyu  7.4 Kyu  1.4 Kyu
5 Kyu :   2.6 Kyu  1.8 Kyu  2.8 Dan  3.0 Kyu  4.5 Kyu  3.5 Dan
5 Kyu :   1.3 Dan  1.3 Dan  4.1 Dan  1.6 Kyu  1.4 Kyu  4.5 Dan
5 Dan :   2.2 Dan  2.0 Dan  4.1 Dan  1.6 Dan  1.3 Kyu  4.5 Dan
5 Dan :   3.2 Dan  2.6 Dan  5.4 Dan  2.5 Dan  1.4 Dan  5.2 Dan
5 Dan :   3.7 Dan  3.5 Dan  6.1 Dan  3.2 Dan  3.2 Dan  6.0 Dan
5 Dan :   6.5 Dan  5.2 Dan  8.6 Dan  4.4 Dan  7.7 Dan  7.4 Dan
5 Dan :   9.2 Dan  8.8 Dan  9.4 Dan  5.8 Dan  9.7 Dan  8.5 Dan
5 Dan :   9.7 Dan  9.6 Dan  9.5 Dan  6.6 Dan  9.9 Dan  8.7 Dan
5 Dan :   9.9 Dan  9.9 Dan  9.8 Dan  7.7 Dan 10.0 Dan  9.4 Dan
5 Dan :  10.0 Dan 10.0 Dan  9.9 Dan  8.7 Dan 10.0 Dan  9.9 Dan
5 Dan :  10.0 Dan 10.0 Dan 10.0 Dan  9.1 Dan 10.0 Dan 10.0 Dan 

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