Beta testers wanted

daniel_the_smith · #1

Dailyjoseki.com (See my old thread announcing it if you don't know what this is) is ready for a few people to put it through its paces.

What are its paces? Once you've logged in, you have a few new options. You are given a "queue" (like netflix) which contains the josekis you want to learn. If you visit the "study" page, it will show you the josekis you currently need to practice. If you get them right, it will wait longer before showing them to you again. If you get them wrong, it will show them to you again sooner. The idea is you log on once or twice a day and run through everything you're learning real quickly. Once you have learned something to its satisfaction, it will start you on another variation or situation where that joseki is used, and so on.

I'm looking for two or three people who won't expect it to be perfect and are willing to email me with comments/suggestions/bugs/etc. I will want input on things that are not necessarily bugs, e.g., tuning the rules that the study page uses.

EDIT: I have enough volunteers now, no more please! PM me with an email address if that describes you. All I can offer are free unlimited accounts when I open it up to the public. That, and an easy way to memorize those josekis you've always wanted to!

(My plan is allow anyone a free account which will limit the amount of josekis you can learn at once, and for a small fee offer an account without limits. I'm hoping to at least pay for the server this way.)

LocoRon · #2

This seems like an interesting idea, so, PM'd.

One thing I noticed right off the bat, from the browse option, was that the path for tenuki was rather non-obvious. My first instinct was to try clicking on one of the semi-transparent stones in the other corners (as I assumed the transparency was based on how common that position was for the next move), and then even though tenuki is listed as option A, there was no A. Normally I wouldn't associate "Pass" with "tenuki", although I guess it makes sense enough, now that I know.

Edit:

Ooh, passing again gives follow-up options for if white also tenukis. Although, having clicked the Pass option so much, I lost track of whose turn it was. XD Might be nice to have a turn indicator.

Edit2:

Just read the original announcement thread. I guess I'm a bit late. XD

adoreme · #3

What kind of Joseki dictionairy does the site use?

LocoRon · #4

adoreme wrote:

What kind of Joseki dictionairy does the site use?

It's from sequences played in the 60,000+ pro games in the GoGoD database.

CarlJung · #5

What kind of spaced repetition algorithm is used?

cdybeijing · #6

I already asked Daniel via pm if this was based on similar methods as Anki.

dfan · #7

I'm also very interested in the spaced repetition method used.

I've been using the spaced repetition program Mnemosyne over the last year to memorize chess openings, and it's worked spectacularly well. My memory has always been pretty poor, but now my openings are a strength rather than a weakness.

More recently I've been trying to figure out how to use spaced repetition for Go, which is a little harder to fit into the system well. What I currently have in the system are

- Cho Hun-hyun's Lectures on the Opening and Lectures on Go Techniques. This is not because these are whole-board positions that I should memorize or something; I just want to inculcate instinctive reactions to standard patterns. Of course I always have to do reading after, but I want "the standard move" to jump to my brain immediately so I can start with it.

- The review problems in Essential Life & Death. This is a really nice structured survey of standard life and death techniques. Again, the idea is not to memorize specific moves as with chess openings but to have the right starting ideas available for immediate recall.

- The josekis from the first volume of Joseki Jeongseok Compass (mostly star-point josekis). This is kind of an experiment since I am well aware of the dangers of memorizing josekis.

So far I feel like it has been a success, although it is much harder to quantify how much it has helped me than it is in chess.

daniel_the_smith · #8

adoreme wrote:

What kind of Joseki dictionairy does the site use?

None. I wrote a program which builds a joseki tree from a collection of games-- in this case I use GoGoD, as LocoRon says.

[quote=cdybeijing]I already asked Daniel via pm if this was based on similar methods as Anki.[/quote]

Yeah, that's the idea. The timing details are easy to change, so at the moment they're randomish guesses; I've been meaning to find a technical paper on spaced repetition to make sure I'm doing it right, but haven't done so yet. :oops:

EDIT: Having just looked it up, yeah, I'm doing it the SuperMemo/Anki way, though it's not quite complete yet.

I think I have plenty of volunteers now, I'm glad you're all interested! I will be emailing some of you soon (and probably the rest of you later).

CarlJung · #9

dfan wrote:

- The josekis from the first volume of Joseki Jeongseok Compass (mostly star-point josekis). This is kind of an experiment since I am well aware of the dangers of memorizing josekis.

A joseki is several moves, how do you implement this in mnemosyne? Please elaborate. I know mnemosyne, I just haven't figured out a way to use it successfully for go.

daniel_the_smith · **#10**

Hence the whole point of my website

CarlJung · **#11**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

Hence the whole point of my website

Touché.

dfan · **#12**

CarlJung wrote:

dfan wrote:

- The josekis from the first volume of Joseki Jeongseok Compass (mostly star-point josekis). This is kind of an experiment since I am well aware of the dangers of memorizing josekis.

A joseki is several moves, how do you implement this in mnemosyne? Please elaborate. I know mnemosyne, I just haven't figured out a way to use it successfully for go.

I do it one move at a time, with a before and after diagram that I export from GoWrite. As you can imagine, it takes a lot of "cards" to cover one joseki.

Kirby · **#13**

At first I thought you guys were talking about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemosyne, so I was so confused. Then I figured that you were probably talking about this: http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/, so I felt a little less crazy.

CarlJung · **#14**

dfan wrote:

I do it one move at a time, with a before and after diagram that I export from GoWrite. As you can imagine, it takes a lot of "cards" to cover one joseki.

Yes, and if you want to swap colors and rotate the board it gets ridiculous real soon. I know, I've been there

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