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| Kogo Joseki Dictionary update http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4248 |
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| Author: | DeaconJohn [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Kogo Joseki Dictionary update |
The KJD was updated on July 1st, just 12 days ago. Last update was December, 2010. In my experience, the changes in the 12/2010 update were both extensive and significant. Anybody know how extensive is the 7/2011 update? In past years, before the 12/2010 update, the KJD had a reputation for being full of errors. Not counting minor typos in the accompanying text, does anybody know if the KJD is still "full of errors" after the 12/2010 update? http://waterfire.us/joseki.htm DeaconJohn |
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| Author: | adoreme [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kogo Joseki Dictionary update |
I did a quick check with 2 joseki variations I knew the old Kogo did not have and found them implemented to some extent. That means one major variation is given, however they left out quite some important other variations. If I had to judge by my sample it still seems not quite up to date. Maybe others could check with some joseki also. [edit] And also a variaton is said to be Joseki even though recent movements consider it not anymore plus that the new exploration joseki for that variation is not given completely. |
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| Author: | DeaconJohn [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kogo Joseki Dictionary update |
Thank you adoreme. In the 12/2010 edition, I also found several major joseki variations missing. Especially, some major variations found in the Nihon Kiin Handbooks of Even Game (3-4) and Handicap (4-4) Joseki. Still, several posts on 19x19 refer to "many errors" in the KJD. The use of the word "errors" would seem to refer to more serious mistakes than the ommision of major lines. All those posts are pre-12/2010, except one, and I suspect that the exception refers to the pre-12/2010 version. Thanks for checking. I still wonder if the "errors" mentioned in the old 19x19 posts are still there. At 6k, I am not competent to tell an error from an innovation. It is possible that the errors are gone (or most of them anyway) since Alexandre Dinerchtein (3p, breakfast on KGS) did the 12/2010 update. He is very knowledgeable about joseki and has published a lot in this area. In fact, one can find more details and explanations about some of the KJD variations in his book, "New Moves". In addition, he includes notes for some variations where he is not sure what the best continuation is. In those notes, and for the KJD in general, breakfast requests comments from "high level dans", which, of course, I am not. |
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| Author: | kivi [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kogo Joseki Dictionary update |
Can you show/define which variations you found to be missing or wrong? And where breakfast asks for comments? etc. |
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| Author: | DeaconJohn [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kogo Joseki Dictionary update |
kivi wrote: Can you show/define which variations you found to be missing or wrong? And where breakfast asks for comments? etc. I would be glad to. Unfortunately, I did not keep a list, but, I run across them quite frequently. I use the KJD a lot. When I run across one, I will post it under this topic. |
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| Author: | DeaconJohn [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Komoku, high approach, low pincer, jump to 2nd line, extend |
kivi wrote: Can you show/define which variations you found to be missing or wrong? And where breakfast asks for comments? etc. Here is a variation where Breakfast asks for comments: 1) komoku: B-r16 (option B) 2) high approach: W-p16 (option d) 3) 1-space low pincer: B-n17 (option f) 4) jump to 2nd line: W-p18 (option b) 5) 2-point extension: B-r13 (option B). After this (very reasonable) sequence, the note says: "If you are high-dan and know the follow-up[s], mail it to me please." I think that kogo@waterfire.us is where the author of this note wants the email sent. The above sequence and the note are unchanged from the 12/2010 edition. DeaconJohn ps The small knight move (B-q16) is more common than the 2-point extension (B-r13) after the jump to the second line (W-p18). This is mentioned in the KJD note that appears after W-p18. |
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| Author: | kivi [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kogo Joseki Dictionary update |
That comment is surely from the original authors of KJD, not from Dinerchtein. |
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| Author: | DeaconJohn [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kogo Joseki Dictionary update |
kivi wrote: That comment is surely from the original authors of KJD, not from Dinerchtein. My point was not a slam against Dinerchtein. In my previous post I expressed the highest regard for him. I was careful to say "the note says" and not "Breakfast says". The correct interpretation of my lead-in "Breakfast asks" is that Breakfast is the editor-in-chief and therefore, in a general way, responsible for the notes. Even the KJD home page lists assistant editors. I am grateful to Breakfast [3p] and to his assistant editors for the time and energy that they are willing to put into the upkeep of the KJD. It is a real service to the Go community. I believe that, in turn, the Go community provides a real service to humanity. Notes like the one mentioned in my previous post add significant value to the KJD. They inform the reader that here is a promising variation that has yet to be fully explored. It is fun to imagine positions and strategies where the "quiet" 2-space extension might be quite interesting. Such notes demonstrate intellectual integrity and an honest desire to search for truth on the part of the author. |
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