Ethics in entertainment: teachers, students, amateurs, pros

[SmoothOper]

I read these ethics about professionals, teachers, students, and amateurs as it relates to music. In many ways it seems that Go specifically this blog suffers from these problems so here are some guide lines that would with adaptation hopefully enhance the overall go community.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6685513_music ... thics.html

[Twitchy Go]

I'm sorry. But I'm not seeing an obvious connection between the music ethics described and L19x19 specifically. Could you elaborate what you mean?

[SmoothOper]

I'm not about to write a soliloquy about it, but.

It seems that there are teachers(book writers), students, amateurs and possibly pros all who play go and use this BLOG.


Some people see the BLOG as a way to advance their teaching, some are looking for training materials while others are interested in chatting.

While amateurs may have conversation that verges on training material teachers and those promoting their books, may not like this(though this speaks volumes about the content in their books).

So back to the ethics, if a Pro writer shows up at an amateur blog session, that is more popular than his paying gig across town, and proceeds to cut heads, then that would be unethical.

[tchan001]

Normally people who post on this FORUM wouldn't mind having a pro offer their opinion on how to play their game better. If I had a game posted and a high dan reviewed it with certain comments which were then pointed out by a pro to be inferior, I would have no problems with that at all. Go is a game of logic whereas music is not something you can quantify with logic.

[SmoothOper]

Normally people who post on this FORUM wouldn't mind having a pro offer their opinion on how to play their game better. If I had a game posted and a high dan reviewed it with certain comments which were then pointed out by a pro to be inferior, I would have no problems with that at all. Go is a game of logic whereas music is not something you can quantify with logic.

Yes, however there are also teachers on the forum, and they do mind, so as a courtesy, its better not to solicit for such information, besides most pro's and teachers have better things to be doing like teaching paying customers the real moves.

[tchan001]

Teacher on the forum are not obligated to offer their opinions on anything. If they do offer their advice, it is normally taken as an opinion which is subject to discussion. People who ask for advice on the forum can expect all sorts of replies from people of different strengths. We are very open to logical opinions on how to play the game better as long as people operate within the restrictions of the forum TOS and avoid things such as personal attacks.

The point of having a FORUM is to have meaningful discussions.

[lemmata]

Yes, however there are also teachers on the forum, and they do mind, so as a courtesy, its better not to solicit for such information, besides most pro's and teachers have better things to be doing like teaching paying customers the real moves.

Well those teachers have no right to complain about random dudes posting advice on the Internet. If people are not seeking their services, then it simply means that their prices are too high. They should either provide higher quality services or lower their prices (or pray that people become richer).

Also, if the pros have better and more profitable things to do, then they probably don't care one bit what some random dude is posting on L19. Indeed, such trivial things are probably not on their minds at all. Actually, if you think that they have better things to do, what is the point of your original post?

Lastly, the linked article in the original post was kind of strange. The logic in that article boils down to something like this: Giving away tomatoes we grew in our backyard is unethical because it reduces the income of professional farmers. Does anyone here seriously believe that amateurs giving free teaching games is unethical because it reduces the income of pros/teachers? Does anyone here seriously believe that this worry keeps the pros up at night?

[RobertJasiek]

While amateurs may have conversation that verges on training material teachers and those promoting their books, may not like this(though this speaks volumes about the content in their books).

Please explain what you are trying to say here! Do amateurs not like something or do book authors not like something? Why would either imply something on contents?

[SmoothOper]

While amateurs may have conversation that verges on training material teachers and those promoting their books, may not like this(though this speaks volumes about the content in their books).

Please explain what you are trying to say here! Do amateurs not like something or do book authors not like something? Why would either imply something on contents?

If professional writer needs to pick nits with amateur bloggers to sell his work, his work probably isn't all that attractive to begin with.

Admin: This thread is becoming more and more a personal attack on a certain member in a roundabout way rather than a friendly discussion of the original post. Please be warned that this is against the spirit of the forum TOS.

[RobertJasiek]

If professional writer needs to pick nits with amateur bloggers to sell his work, his work probably isn't all that attractive to begin with.

Wrong. That a book writer writes in a blog means first of all that he enjoys blog discussion about as much as other non-writers do.

Picking nits is dubious description for what can be related to various forms of comments from praise to criticism, from incorrect in small details to false to the extent of conveying the opposite of truth. For every form of comment and every contents of comment, there can be a great variety of different motivations for him to reply to comments and to possibly correct comments. E.g., a motivation can be to raise current understanding of go theory to a next higher level. Where you suspect nothing else than selling as only possible motivation, there can in fact be many other motivations.

If you judge on books by picking nits discussions, then your chances to find out a book's value is smaller than the fraction that the nit's topic covers among the book's possibly many topics.

[palapiku]

Speaking as an amateur musician who have played paid and unpaid gigs in several bands, that whole article is complete nonsense.

If you are a professional musician, then you are doing for money something that many people are willing to do for free. You are living many people's dream. You should either:

a) be happy with a reduced compensation because you are competing with others who do the same thing for free because it's so much fun

b) be much much better than amateurs so that you obviously deserve a higher compensation

Ethics does not come into this at all. It's a simple and honest free market situation.

[Joaz Banbeck]

... that whole article is complete nonsense....
Ethics does not come into this at all. It's a simple and honest free market situation.

I was looking at it from an amateur writer's position, and coming to the same conclusion. The referenced article is drivel.

( Although...now I am probably going to have nightmares in which I am attacked by a mob of pros at Congress because of the free reviews that I have given here on L19. )

[SmoothOper]

Speaking as an amateur musician who have played paid and unpaid gigs in several bands, that whole article is complete nonsense.

If you are a professional musician, then you are doing for money something that many people are willing to do for free. You are living many people's dream. You should either:

a) be happy with a reduced compensation because you are competing with others who do the same thing for free because it's so much fun

b) be much much better than amateurs so that you obviously deserve a higher compensation

Ethics does not come into this at all. It's a simple and honest free market situation.

Sure it is a free market, and I don't see it being regulated any time soon, but the meaning of the suggestion is that perhaps by considering ethics, we can promote both the entertainment and profit of the parties involved.

[tchan001]

Sure it is a free market, and I don't see it being regulated any time soon, but the meaning of the suggestion is that perhaps by considering ethics, we can promote both the entertainment and profit of the parties involved.

In your opinion, by what code of ethics should we consider in the case of the game of go to promote both the entertainment and profit of the parties involved. It is difficult to consider anything if it is not defined. A few people have pointed out that the ethics as defined in the original article is not suitable.

[SmoothOper]

Sure it is a free market, and I don't see it being regulated any time soon, but the meaning of the suggestion is that perhaps by considering ethics, we can promote both the entertainment and profit of the parties involved.

In your opinion, by what code of ethics should we consider in the case of the game of go to promote both the entertainment and profit of the parties involved. It is difficult to consider anything if it is not defined. A few people have pointed out that the ethics as defined in the original article is not suitable.

I agree that Go is different, and I was suggesting that it be a starting point, but the article is relevant in my opinion in the sense that Go is fundamentally entertainment.