Oh, I'll play tommorrow. (No, you won't.)

[mdobbins]

When I played in tournaments, I played to measure myself against people playing their best. Winning was great and I played to win but it was not the goal. I no longer need that and simply play for the love of the game.

[NoSkill]

I also want to just play and teach. But that would be only because I gave up on improving... lets be honest, if you don't limit yourself you always want to improve, so do it! The reason you don't want to play or only want to teach partly is because "I've hit my limit" or "I'm just not good enough, I'm better at teaching anyway." . Throw those kind of thoughts out! Teaching is fine, but anyone can improve at any age or rank.

[Mivo]

I have anxiety issues when it comes to Go for some reason.

This is probably intimately related to:

This quote seems odd to me though. I've always seen tournaments, in any game/event, to be competitive and winning and losing are important in a competition by nature.

If you shift your thoughts away from the importance of winning (in general), your anxiety issues may dissolve, too.

[Faro]

I think the word "fun" is also debatable. There is a video game designer I really respect named Jonathan Blow who talked about "fun." He said he used to play very, very competitive video games, And he would not say they were "fun." They were far from what you would think of when you think of fun, actually. They were mean, difficult, punishing and frustrating. And playing them would often get very emotional and heated and if an outsider looked in, Fun would be the last word on their mind to describe what they saw.

So I think a lot of studying Go is like that for people. They want to have Fun. And for them, Reading books about the game and studying and all this isn't playing, so it's not fun. They don't want to have to take classes on a game just to feel like they can play it. It also works in the reverse, People might feel like they can't play at all if they don't do all this study first.
But just like with the competitive video games mentioned above, There is something rewarding and pleasurable people get from this. I don't know if I would call it "fun" it's such an umbrella term to describe anything we do that is enjoyable. But it is rewarding.

As for me, Why I don't play more than I do, I pretty much have it narrowed down. I dislike online Go (which seems like the best and fastest way to get strong) And I do feel bad when I lose. A full game of Go can take a long time, And if I invest all this time in this game, then I feel like I better darn well win. So when I lose, I do tend to take it poorly, and feel like I'll never get better.

[Josh Hatch]

I have anxiety issues when it comes to Go for some reason.

This is probably intimately related to:

This quote seems odd to me though. I've always seen tournaments, in any game/event, to be competitive and winning and losing are important in a competition by nature.

If you shift your thoughts away from the importance of winning (in general), your anxiety issues may dissolve, too.

The second was about tournaments. I don't view every game as being about winning and losing but if I enter a tournament it is. Normally I just try to play the best I can, whether I win or lose I can learn something from the game that way.

[Garuseimasahi]

My question is this: Are you REALLY playing out of love for the game? Or are you playing to get a better rank, and therefore, more recognition?

Where do you get your self worth from? From being compared with others? Or from learning the game?

This is an important distinction. If you are scared of not being recognized, then you will not be truly strong. Learning to be strong is a matter of understanding the game. It has very little to do with actually winning.

[ProtoJazz]

One of the things I really enjoy about the game is that it has a very solid ranking system. I love playing, but one of the things I love about playing is going up in rank. Its very quick to see improvment as a quantified number vs other games where you might only be able to have a subjective idea based on how you did at tournament a vs tournament b.

Though with most games, after a particularly bad loss, or a few in a row Im usualy done for a while, and probably will come back to it the next day. Or after a break

[Josh Hatch]

My question is this: Are you REALLY playing out of love for the game? Or are you playing to get a better rank, and therefore, more recognition?

Where do you get your self worth from? From being compared with others? Or from learning the game?

This is an important distinction. If you are scared of not being recognized, then you will not be truly strong. Learning to be strong is a matter of understanding the game. It has very little to do with actually winning.

That's a hard question to answer. I can say it's the only thing that I've never been bored with. I can also say that I feel like time I spend playing or studying Go is time well spent. I can't say that it's always fun because it's not, it can be hard work.

Of course getting stronger doesn't mean winning more, since, unless you're the best, you'll be playing against stronger and stronger players.

Anxiety issues aren't always rational. I think it's something I just have to face and force myself through.

[Kirby]

What is "truly strong"? I agree with the sentiment that it's good to like playing go for playing go - and not to get recognition.

But practically speaking, there are many ways to get stronger at the game, regardless of your motives. It just may seem shallow and unfun if you don't play because you love the game for the game itself.

I figure it's like losing weight by jogging. If I love to jog, it's a lot more fun to jog, I lose weight in the process, and it's a win-win scenario all around.

If I hate jogging, it might suck to go out and force myself to run. I might hate it and give up. If I am dogged enough, I might be able to make it through and end up losing all the weight I wanted to lose.

In both cases, it's possible to lose weight. The former is easier to mantain, more fun, yada, yada, yada. But the result is possible in either case...

So we haven't really defined "truly strong" in this thread, but I'm doubtful that you can't get "truly strong" from shallow motivation, or even if you hate the game.

It'll just suck more, and maybe you'll regret the time you spent in vanity.

[Faro]

So we haven't really defined "truly strong" in this thread, but I'm doubtful that you can't get "truly strong" from shallow motivation, or even if you hate the game.

It'll just suck more, and maybe you'll regret the time you spent in vanity.

I think "truly strong" is different for every person. I was playing a game with a 4k friend of mine, and he invited his 1D friend to help review the game. The 1D asked me my strength, and I told him I didn't know, But i took an online test where you solve problems and it gives you an estimate, so I told him it was very roughly AGA 12k. He said "Well 12k is not weak, you're almost a SDK!"

I was glad for his compliment, But to me, "strong" is in the Dan ranks. If I ever manage to hit 1D I would probably consider myself to be a "good" go player, Even though 1D is the lowest of the Dan ranks, It is so far above where you start, that for me, It is a good level to shoot for and if you are a 1D you should be proud of yourself.

I think we can all agree that a pro is strong.
But is "truly strong" the strength of someone like Shusaku, Go Seigan, Lee Sedal or others who advance the game as a whole? It seems very easy to judge yourself against the best in the world and say "Man, I stink at this game!" I tend to do that with everything I take an interest in and I often overlook any actual abilities that I do have, Because I'm always looking at the abilities that I don't have.

[golem7]

I tend to do that with everything I take an interest in and I often overlook any actual abilities that I do have, Because I'm always looking at the abilities that I don't have.

I know that feeling very well and unfortunately have to say that it stays the same, no matter how strong you are (at least for me). The beautiful thing about go is that you can always see that next step of improvement in front of you, regardless of strength (e.g. had I only read that one step further, counted the ko-threats, protected before attacking etc.) although maybe that can also be called the curse of go...

As you get stronger you make less mistakes but also learn to appreciate the game on another level. When you play for the first time, the board is like a closed book or a maze and you don't know what to do with it. But step by step you realize more and more of the nature of the game, be it the moment you get that you can't run away on the first line or when for the first time you defend against a ko-threat in a way to minimize the number of further threats.

With every improvement you learn more about the beauty of the game and the stronger the level, the more subtle these things become. But that next stone in strength always kinda seems to be in reaching distance, although it gets harder and harder with every stone.

So improvement in itself can enhance your love of the game, but maybe people who play for fun feel more comfortable to just marvel at the immenseness of the game which no one of us will ever completely decipher: not me, you or lee sedol. On the other hand I know people who play "for fun" and haven't learned or improved in years but they still get as agitated over a loss as everyone.

I've been an egf 1d for a good while now but I most certainly am not proud of myself or consider myself as strong because I still make so many mistakes and there is so much left to learn. But I guess for all of us there is no ending point where we're truly satisfied, only the path

[Tami]

Avoiding playing go and relying on books and problems instead to improve is like

...trying to learn guitar without practicing the guitar
...trying to learn soccer without a ball
...trying to learn French without speaking it (sadly, not an uncommon approach to English-learning here but...)
...trying to learn programming without writing a program
...trying to learn dancing without actually dancing

I was a bit slow, personally, to realise it, but study is only the start. The real learning comes in the practice. Study feeds the practice, and practice hones the study. It may be painful to lose a game, but it can help you understand what you have studied more, and if something you have studied helps you to win, then you`ll remember the pleasure.

It can take a lot of practice to consolidate something new learned in study. If it did not, then you could read a book on dancing and suddenly be backing up Lady Gaga, and you could read Entirety of Go Strategy by Gernot Thuempenhauser and be trading blows with Gu Li. But it`s not like that. Don`t worry about it! Just get on with it.

So what I`m doing is simple: study lots, play lots.

[Koosh]

Thank you all for writing here with your thoughts on this topic. I think that a number of insightful comments have been made. More specifically, it's good to know that I am not the only one bothered by this.

I spoke with a different pro about it. Specifically, I brought up the anxiety I feel when I play fast games at 20 seconds a move. My question was: "When you find yourself under time pressure, do you alter your playing style? Doesn't the anxiety cause you to not be able to read as quickly as you could if you were not under pressure? This idea that my reading is limited during fast play is causing me to really disdain playing fast games."

For the first, he answered that he doesn't feel like he plays differently under time pressure. I was baffled by this and said, "What!? You mean to tell me that you don't play it safe at all?" No, he does indeed play it safe but sometimes you really have no choice but to respond in an equally agressive manner.

To the second, the young professional thought about it and said that when he was in training, people would often play 10-20 fast games a day along with their serious games and that nothing but good came from it. There were obvious benefits.

1. More exposure to shapes, positions, and joseki that would happen in a game.
2. Experience, experience, experience.
3. Fun and ridiculously laughable mistakes.

Ultimately, the pro said I shouldn't worry about the results of these games. So I won't - instead, I'll play to have fun and practice.
Hopefully this helps urge me to play more and care less about the meticulousness of Go! Hope these conversations help those of you who shy away from blitz go because of anxiety.

[Loons]

would often play 10-20 fast games a day along with their serious games

If your goal is still improving I think the serious games were an important part of that training.

To paraphrase Ishida Yoshio, if you want to improve the best way is trying to improve: Just playing for fun is just playing for fun (as xedover says too I think).

[jts]

would often play 10-20 fast games a day along with their serious games

If your goal is still improving I think the serious games were an important part of that training.

To paraphrase Ishida Yoshio, if you want to improve the best way is trying to improve: Just playing for fun is just playing for fun (as xedover says too I think).

Pssh, you think that slow games are more fun anyway.