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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #81 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:16 pm 
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@emeraldemon
emeraldemon wrote:
Odds of winning: 41%
Is that Fuego's evaluation of the position or a reflection of the price you've had to pay for serving as Fuego's conduit in games on this site? :) Also, are there error bars associated with this number?

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #82 Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:09 am 
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@ The Intrepid
That number is just my instinct. (I think consulting Fuego would probably be cheating.) When I did those Fuego malkovich games I thought it was fun watching the estimation go up and down after different moves, so I thought I would try to guess my own chances of winning. I have no idea what the error bars are, but they're probably fairly large!
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #83 Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:01 pm 
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emeraldemon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . 6 X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X 5 . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think it's best to let those stones go and look at the big picture. I may get something out of them later.

Odds of winning: 41%


Isn't it important to save those stones because they are separating two weak white groups?
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #84 Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:59 pm 
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I also think these cutting stones are important. Thankfully, it looks like Black has time to change his mind about sacrificing them, because I don't think these stones can be captured, yet ... At least I don't see a way to do it.

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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #85 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:49 am 
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The Intrepid wrote:
I also think these cutting stones are important. Thankfully, it looks like Black has time to change his mind about sacrificing them, because I don't think these stones can be captured, yet ... At least I don't see a way to do it.


I agree that they can't be easily captured right away, but my instinct is that by letting white take the initiative there, white can get a lot of sente plays against them to strengthen his own groups.
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #86 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:07 am 
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Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 8 . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this lets me escape and live with my groups.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 3 2 7 . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . 6 4 5 9 O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


cont.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm86 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O 5 2 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X O X 3 4 . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . O O X X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X 8 . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #87 Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:34 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 8 . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Thoughts: First, White's move doesn't completely capture the black stones, but I probably don't want to get chased.

Overall territory balance: White's lower-left corner is slightly larger than black's lower right corner, but not a lot: 4-5 points.
The captures give white a little bit in the center, but most of our points are coming from the top and sides.

White has a fairly solid 30 point side + upper corner. I have a much looser framework, but one that stretches over a much larger area.
Three basic ideas occur to me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like "a" is the best move for me here, because it makes territory and prevents white from expanding. I don't like the way the board looks if white gets "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White has great potential for expanding the moyo in the center and invading my top side.
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #88 Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . 2 . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is by far the largest move on the board. It captures the cutting stones turning two weak groups into one strong group. Now I think invading my side and securing his top right corner are miai.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #89 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:59 am 
Gosei
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Sorry for taking so long, real life intruded.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm80 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I actually think it was too small for white to spend a move capturing those three stones now. This maybe my chance.
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #90 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm80 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Responding on the side is small. I want to make fill his moyo full of invasions. This move scoops out a lot of potential territory from black, and keeps my corner safe.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #91 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:38 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm80 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


His move looks good, makes me wonder if my play was a mistake. I'm going to probe here and see what the situation looks like.

Odds of Winning: 48%
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #92 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:11 am 
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Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm80 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't really see the point of that last move. The peep at C16 seems to be much more severe. I am either missing something and should be nervous, or my opponent made a mistake and I should be happy. If only I could figure out which.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #93 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:46 am 
Gosei
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DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Numbering got slightly off, I think this is correct.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure how I can use the aji of that corner stone, maybe the jump in was premature? We'll see. Anyway I think this is the next biggest move now.
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #94 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:42 am 
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The "probe" on move 82 does not strike me as a particularly good move. The following :b1: would have been better, which can lead to a ko in the corner, as shown:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 5 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |[/go]

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #95 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:11 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
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KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
The Intrepid wrote:
The "probe" on move 82 does not strike me as a particularly good move. The following :b1: would have been better, which can lead to a ko in the corner, as shown:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 5 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |[/go]


I dunno, this way black can live unconditionally in the corner later with d18 and tripod group (or else cut off f18 which is adequate compensation). Usually f18 could mean the tripod is dead, but black can use e18 sente to live for the cost of hurting f16. That attachment probe can be a good timing in this common shape to create the right to live in the corner later as given black just slid he's not going to allow it to get cut off. (B could choose other answers for 3 like a/b but white still has aji to utilise in the corner.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Probe
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . O . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . b a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline drmwc
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #96 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:57 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
The Intrepid wrote:
The "probe" on move 82 does not strike me as a particularly good move. The following :b1: would have been better, which can lead to a ko in the corner, as shown:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 5 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |[/go]


I dunno, this way black can live unconditionally in the corner later with d18 and tripod group (or else cut off f18 which is adequate compensation). Usually f18 could mean the tripod is dead, but black can use e18 sente to live for the cost of hurting f16. That attachment probe can be a good timing in this common shape to create the right to live in the corner later as given black just slid he's not going to allow it to get cut off. (B could choose other answers for 3 like a/b but white still has aji to utilise in the corner.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Probe
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . O . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . b a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It' unclear to me in this case. White's slide is one place further in, so:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc hane
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 7 1 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X O 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 8 O 4 . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


W can reply with 2 above. If B persists in the corner, he runs our of moves. So a better bet maybe to try 1 below first.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc hane - variant
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 7 5 O 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b X O 9 3 2 . a . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Next B has miai of a and b. So W may need to back off in reply to 1 in the second diagram, which isn't clearly good for B.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc hane - variant -gote for B.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


B takes gote if he protects at 3, although it will be big if played at the right time. But the corner exchange is bad for B here - it clearly loses points.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #97 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:04 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Oh yes, I should try that reading 2 moves ahead thing... :oops:

This post by Uberdude was liked by: Bonobo
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #98 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X 6 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is my desperate attempt to reduce some of this moyo
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #99 Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:58 am 
Gosei
User avatar

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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 B: 2 captures
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Something like this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . 8 9 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X . . O X X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . X O O X X O O O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . O X X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #207 Djllap VS Emeraldemon
Post #100 Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:36 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Odds of winning: down a little bit I'd say, maybe 45% again.
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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