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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:36 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . B . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sure, if you win this one, I'll play at four stones. But I don't plan on losing this... :twisted:

Ok, well, I'm on my iPad, so I'm not going to write up everything I thought. I think I spent over 20 minutes on this move. I decided my inner group is not strong and I can't attack until it is. I considered 5 or 6 different moves before coming back to this one, which was my first instinct. As far as I can tell this strikes the best balance between defense and attack without strengthening him any more than necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #22 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:00 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: 48. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #23 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:38 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I went back and forth between this move and d8. I expect W to play d8 next, and I will take d2. If I play d8, W will get thick while I live small with my bottom group. Magicwand knows what to do with thickness, so I will concede some territory to deny him it.

Some things I considered for the last move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc I don't like white getting 2.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 3 . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 1 . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc I debated about this for a long time. White 4 looks too good.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 1 . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc I'm still not sure if this is good or not. I don't like to give white moves like 2 unless I can see a clear benefit. Plus 4 can descend instead and then I have problems.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O 3 5 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . 1 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc I almost played this, but I realized white will play 2 @ 3, and then it sorta falls apart for me.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 2 . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 3 , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #24 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:46 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #25 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:51 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll let him sweat about the cutting point. I think I'm doing pretty good so far...

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #26 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:58 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #27 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:26 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . B . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The safer he forces me to make this group, the easier it is for me to think about cutting that knight's jump.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #28 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:36 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
I'm extraordinarily curious to know what people think of this game so far. I'm taking the lack of posts to mean no one thinks I've made an obvious mistake yet... I think I still have all three handicap stones.

And of course, feel free to ask me questions about my thought process.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #29 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:48 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #30 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:07 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1848
Location: Bellevue, WA
Liked others: 90
Was liked: 837
Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
daniel_the_smith wrote:
I'm extraordinarily curious to know what people think of this game so far. I'm taking the lack of posts to mean no one thinks I've made an obvious mistake yet... I think I still have all three handicap stones.

And of course, feel free to ask me questions about my thought process.

To daniel_the_smith:
If I had to describe your game in one word, it'd be "standard". So far the game has a very textbook feel to my eyes, and both sides are playing simple and fundamental. I think the kryptonite to taking down Magicwand is to not feel intimidated and consider him as an equal rather than some Malkovich god or something. As they say, play the board not the opponent.

Moves like L6 should not budge you in any way and the only sort of questions that should come to your mind when you see such a move should be "What is the best way to exploit the weakness behind such a move?" rather than "How do I defend against such powerplay?".

Having the right mentality can make a big difference, as we clearly saw in Kirby's series - and Kirby if you're reading this, you need to have more confidence against Magicwand! Be like the wolf in your avatar.


This post by Solomon was liked by 2 people: Kirby, schultz
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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #31 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:32 pm 
Honinbo

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Araban wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
I'm extraordinarily curious to know what people think of this game so far. I'm taking the lack of posts to mean no one thinks I've made an obvious mistake yet... I think I still have all three handicap stones.

And of course, feel free to ask me questions about my thought process.

To daniel_the_smith:
If I had to describe your game in one word, it'd be "standard". So far the game has a very textbook feel to my eyes, and both sides are playing simple and fundamental. I think the kryptonite to taking down Magicwand is to not feel intimidated and consider him as an equal rather than some Malkovich god or something. As they say, play the board not the opponent.

Moves like L6 should not budge you in any way and the only sort of questions that should come to your mind when you see such a move should be "What is the best way to exploit the weakness behind such a move?" rather than "How do I defend against such powerplay?".

Having the right mentality can make a big difference, as we clearly saw in Kirby's series - and Kirby if you're reading this, you need to have more confidence against Magicwand! Be like the wolf in your avatar.


Araban:
Why is a move like L6 not a powerplay? I feel very intimidated by a move like this. White can get influence when I try to escape.

I have played pros a couple of times in simultaneous 9-stone games. A common sequence I've seen is something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . X . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . 5 . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Though it is 9 stone game, I am already afraid on the top of the influence white will get when I try to escape.

I guess I wouldn't say that I'm losing, but if white did this on the bottom side, too, I might feel like I'm half way to defeat...

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Post #32 Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:52 pm 
Gosei
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Kirby wrote:
Araban wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
I'm extraordinarily curious to know what people think of this game so far. I'm taking the lack of posts to mean no one thinks I've made an obvious mistake yet... I think I still have all three handicap stones.

And of course, feel free to ask me questions about my thought process.

To daniel_the_smith:
If I had to describe your game in one word, it'd be "standard". So far the game has a very textbook feel to my eyes, and both sides are playing simple and fundamental. I think the kryptonite to taking down Magicwand is to not feel intimidated and consider him as an equal rather than some Malkovich god or something. As they say, play the board not the opponent.

Moves like L6 should not budge you in any way and the only sort of questions that should come to your mind when you see such a move should be "What is the best way to exploit the weakness behind such a move?" rather than "How do I defend against such powerplay?".

Having the right mentality can make a big difference, as we clearly saw in Kirby's series - and Kirby if you're reading this, you need to have more confidence against Magicwand! Be like the wolf in your avatar.


Araban:
Why is a move like L6 not a powerplay? I feel very intimidated by a move like this. White can get influence when I try to escape.

I have played pros a couple of times in simultaneous 9-stone games. A common sequence I've seen is something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . X . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . 5 . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Though it is 9 stone game, I am already afraid on the top of the influence white will get when I try to escape.

I guess I wouldn't say that I'm losing, but if white did this on the bottom side, too, I might feel like I'm half way to defeat...

If you feel intimidated, then the move has already done its work. :)

Regarding your last example, the formation is discussed in Janice Kim's LTPG series somewhere and calmly shows why such a play is an intimidation tactic and nothing more - careful reading can break White's formation to pieces. If I have time I'll try to see where the exact page is, but the book is pretty popular so I'm sure someone else knows which section of which volume I'm talking about.

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Post #33 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:01 am 
Lives in sente
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Kirby wrote:
Why is a move like L6 not a powerplay? I feel very intimidated by a move like this. White can get influence when I try to escape.

I have played pros a couple of times in simultaneous 9-stone games. A common sequence I've seen is something like this:[...]


Let us reverse the colours:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What do you fear now?

What does White thus fear in the original diagram?

_________________
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This post by Harleqin was liked by 3 people: dfan, Kirby, Zwergesel
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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #34 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:20 am 
Honinbo

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Harleqin wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Why is a move like L6 not a powerplay? I feel very intimidated by a move like this. White can get influence when I try to escape.

I have played pros a couple of times in simultaneous 9-stone games. A common sequence I've seen is something like this:[...]


Let us reverse the colours:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What do you fear now?

What does White thus fear in the original diagram?


So weird...

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #35 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:31 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
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IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Moves I thought about:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc I feel it tries to do two things while not doing either one well
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc This seems OK, but it lacks something. I don't know what.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The move I ended up playing is the one that first jumped out at me. At first I thought it was bad because white would attach underneath and get a favorable ko, but then I thought of another way to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 2 X 8 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc No ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Because of that last diagram, I think my last move is sente. I'm not worried about that stone on top, I think it's a case where Magicwand's "one stone is aji" rule applies. (I think the stone Kirby just used that rule on in his game vs Chew Terr is not one it applies to!)

Basically I just like the way this move looks. White's group is starting to look pathetic...

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #36 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:42 am 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
he is playing well for 1K.
my prediction: he will lose this game and probably 4 stone game too.
i have played people stronger than him with 4 stones and didnt lose money.
i see black group slowly getting weaker on every move.


below is what i would have played if i was black. i dont know if it is optimal but i know that it is damn good move close to optimal.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #37 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:46 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
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OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I haven't read everything out, but it seems that letting white get H8 would be completely intolerable. Plus now white's right group is looking weaker.

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #38 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:59 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X W . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
what i am hoping will happen later
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X W . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 2 1 . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #39 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:10 am 
Gosei

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Another sector line fight! I feel like Black is doing better at keeping ahead in it than in the last Magicwand-Kirby game.

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 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #40 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:17 am 
Lives in gote
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I don't agree with Daniel's analysis after black F10. This seems more likely, now or later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a 5 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 2 X . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


leaving a and b as miai.

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