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 Post subject: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here?
Post #1 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:07 pm 
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My opponent didn't let me finish the game, but I thought I had a chance to build 2 eyes in the upper right corner. Is it possible? Many thanks!



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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #2 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Yes, by playing one point to the right of the star point if black plays next.

Edit: Opps, for some reason it didn't go to the end of the game - I was on move 33 XD

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #3 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:21 pm 
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The 1-2 point on the top edge seems to lead to ko. Unfortunately, I'm on ipad so can't really post variations.

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Slightly tricky. Certainly hard for your level. I think your opponent really should let you continue if you think you can live..

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The 1-2 point on the top edge seems to lead to ko. Unfortunately, I'm on ipad so can't really post variations.


I think so, too. Here's my reading: (mostly garbage except the 1-2 point illluck mentioned)

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #5 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:25 pm 
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I don't know about the situation in the top-right, but you should never let an opponent pressure you into finishing the game if you're uncertain. Even if they say they have to run. If they don't have time for a game, they shouldn't have been playing.

It's your journey into this game, and you learn from what happens on the board. Take charge and try your hand when the situation is fuzzy.

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #6 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Phoenix wrote:
I don't know about the situation in the top-right, but you should never let an opponent pressure you into finishing the game if you're uncertain. Even if they say they have to run. If they don't have time for a game, they shouldn't have been playing.

It's your journey into this game, and you learn from what happens on the board. Take charge and try your hand when the situation is fuzzy.


I agree. I'm still no expert in KGS. Let's say both of us pass and we go to scoring, is there a way to continue the game from there?

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #7 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:40 pm 
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gmsa84 wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
I don't know about the situation in the top-right, but you should never let an opponent pressure you into finishing the game if you're uncertain. Even if they say they have to run. If they don't have time for a game, they shouldn't have been playing.

It's your journey into this game, and you learn from what happens on the board. Take charge and try your hand when the situation is fuzzy.


I agree. I'm still no expert in KGS. Let's say both of us pass and we go to scoring, is there a way to continue the game from there?


If you press the undo button, the game continues with you to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #8 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Universal go server handle: moyoaji
Actually, I think black has one ko threat you are forgetting about... that other dead group has one eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ The Ko Threat
$$-----------
$$|OO.OXXO.O|
$$|XOO.OXXOO|
$$|XXOOOXX.X|
$$|X.X.OOXX.|
$$|C.XOOXXOX|
$$|..XOOOOOB|
$$|.X,XOOOO.|
$$|..XXXOXXX|
$$|..XOOOOX.|
$$----------[/go]


If black connects his group has two eyes. White has to stop it and black can take the ko and live. Now, white will then play at the circle as a ko threat and black won't be able to stop it. By the end white will have 6 captures and black will have 4, so white still wins, but black's group lives.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Final Game: B - 14, W - 21.5
$$-----------
$$|OO.OXX.X.|
$$|.OO.OXX..|
$$|..OOOXXXX|
$$|.OX.OOXXX|
$$|OOXOOXXOX|
$$|XXXOOOOOX|
$$|.X,XOOOOO|
$$|..XXXOXXX|
$$|..XOOOOX.|
$$----------[/go]

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves


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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #9 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:51 pm 
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moyoaji wrote:
black has one ko threat you are forgetting about

Indeed. I guess I should have done my reading with the original sgf.

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #10 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Interesting corner. :) Difficult.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #11 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Wow, totally missed the mannen ko. I dismissed the other ko because black gets to take first, but of course it is preferable to a 10000 year ko (aka seki in this position).

These pesky carpenters and their oblong utensils!

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 Post subject: Re: Any chance for Black to take the upper right corner here
Post #12 Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Wow, this definitely was more complicated that it looks... Thanks for all the input guys!

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