#234 Hades12 vs opex

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opex
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#234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by opex »

Hi all!

Hades12 has kindly agreed to play an even game against me under japanese ruleset with open books.
Nigiri:
:white: :white: :white:
:white: :white:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1
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$$ -------------------------------------------[/go]
Hades12
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1
$$ -------------------------------------------
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$$ -------------------------------------------[/go]


Shooting for an influence game. Sanrensai
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by opex »

Well, i guess you won nigiri. Have a good game!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The direction is such that black cannot make a convenient approach. For it, he should choose cross fuseki. Let's see
Hades12
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


change of plans. I like to fight so sense he offered a cross game, I'll take it.
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by opex »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm4
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Oh man.. Mokuhazushi.. Fighting style? Inviting me to make a double approached komoku in the lower left? Well, that'll wait, for now I'll get some influential stone.
Hades12
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm4
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


his upper star point feels awkward. As this is cross fuseki it should be a fighting/ territory game. But the 4-4 is flexible. My low approach feels natural .
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by opex »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ignoring and going into c4 is premature, I guess. Though approached komokus are fine, black can make a moyo of it, I think. And I don't want to deal with moyos. Not yet.
Then, I don't like pincer here since the lower left is black. So, will he go into the corner?
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i want to try to develop fast. I expect a pincer and then I will back off with my first approach I think.
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by opex »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Meh.. So many choices.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . b . X . . . . . . . d . X c . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a is my first instinct. I don't like to be double approached. This way he has two josekis to continue, so I might have a chance to attack one of his stones.

b is still here. Still early to give him walls.

c is to grab the huge corner. Will he immediately stand up? Given that I'm very very likely to not ignore a double approach, he can go for it. So it may not be sente. And if he does play p4, how do I attack it further? n4? Still I'd like to be not worried about anything before lauching a fight. Theoretically though, approached stones are fine...

d is for making him go into the corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . 0 , . . . . . , . . . . . 4 O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . 9 . . 1 . X . 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This might happen. He's not alive locally, but he's out, so no worries. I got something on the bottom, but he can get a double approach or a huge shimari with a favourable approach already in place. Feels not right. And if you count that h3 is his sente.. I don't want this.

So i don't see anything really tempting and worth playing more than just simple a. It does feel like I'm following him.. But patience now will let me play anything I want later.
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


now I'll back off. If he pincers in the top left I'll ignore to take k16 or undercut his lower right side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A or b if he pincers.
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

but i would play r14. That's what I expect he'll play
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

@opex

I did a little research. I went through a few of your other Malkovich games. And I must say I'm very impressed with your style of play and your thought processes. Your style feels very patient and calm, almost simple, as opposed to my fast paced, aggressive fighting style. I'm looking forward to seeing how we match up. I think I could learn patience from you way of play.
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by opex »

Oh, thank you. But patient and calm style has a huge weakness: underplays...

And I'm following your other game, I'm allowed to read comments there :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So both my groups are completely fine, and I'm free. But what do I want? First ideas that come up:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If this is sente, I've got a gift. So it's large, but I don't think black'll respond. And what's my continuation if he doesn't respond? To be honest, I don't know. Playing p4 myself doesn't seem big...

Okay, he didn't finish joseki.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 2 5 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Actually I like if it goes like this since it limits the potential of shimari if black encloses lower left with a. And I have b now if he doesn't.

Next, what if I expand the right side?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . 2 . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I see no good move for black on the right side here..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . W . 5 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 6 X 4 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a provokes b, so no good for black either. Hmm, I'm starting to like kakari too.

So I have to choose between two moves.

Let's see what are the pitfalls on the left? Maybe he can sacrifice that stone to build wings?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Too large wings, of course, but still I'll have to go in somewhere... :( I'd be afraid of this overstretched construction. So maybe he'll go into the corner :) But it's gote for me :( But it makes the top interesting for me if he denies the right side :) But if he denies me the top, I'd feel cramped and be tempted to try and connect at d14 or something :( I'm a Libra, you guessed, right? So watever I play, five minutes later I'll find a reason to change my mind.

Well, I'd really like to create a weak group for the opponent and make it run.. And I dislike the result after he gets to play there first
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 7 . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

since not that he is that weak on the left, and he's grabbed the bottom, and what do I have? Ah, right, the right side. If I add the right side to this diagram, I think it's pretty even result. Black to move, white has komi.. Wait. I supposed that it can happen if I don't play anywhere. So I can add the right side right now. Can I?
Hades12
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by Hades12 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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opex
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Re: #234 Hades12 vs opex

Post by opex »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As planned. I grab the corner, he'll have influence. But how will he use it there, as both adjacent corners are mine?
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