Thank you in advance for your comment!
I am white. I feel lucky as black has made several slow moves (B33, ), though I also have my own boneheaded moves (W120 at F15 is essentially self atari).
Some specific thoughts
* W18 should probably be at N2 instead of N3. It allows a peek, but it is probably better than losing the corner.
* W36 should probably be J3 -- I didn't expect B37.
* B53-B55-B57 leads to a tradeoff of corner versus the creation of a weak group. Is this good or bad for black?
* I tried to attack the newly created weak group by W62 and W64. Is this the right approach?
* At W68, I don't know what to do. I can play G11 to separate black, but I would hate to allow M9 for black. So I play W68 at L9. What should I do instead?
* W84 should probably be at C14 instead. It pushes from behind and thus it is not good, but that saves me to play at B17 later. And it is kind of difficult to use E15 anyway.
* I am at another cross road at W90. I want to find a way to reduce black, but I am not sure how to proceed. Is attaching a high stone at L16 a good idea?
* W94 should probably be cut at K17.
* The cut at N11 at B137 hurts me a lot. Not sure if there is a better way to handle that or not.
* W198 should probably be just at G1.
Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
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gostudent
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Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
There is indeed a bizarre discrepancy between the level of the ideas and the level of execution. Even so, your repertoire of moves is not too bad in itself.
Most striking conceptual flaw: after the lower right black group is clearly alive, you keep playing relatively close to it.
A few answers to your questions:
* W18 should probably be at N2 instead of N3. It allows a peek, but it is probably better than losing the corner.
Indeed N2 is the common move. Later the aji of N3 becomes apparent, fortunately the trade was good.
* B53-B55-B57 leads to a tradeoff of corner versus the creation of a weak group. Is this good or bad for black?
A few more points for black's corner for a strong white group and a weak black one. We will all prefer white in this trade.
* I tried to attack the newly created weak group by W62 and W64. Is this the right approach?
Given the wide centre and open top and your stable groups, the profit was to be found at the top, so a capping play for attack was called for.
* At W68, I don't know what to do. I can play G11 to separate black, but I would hate to allow M9 for black. So I play W68 at L9. What should I do instead?
Indeed, Black runs towards the interesting top and White's attack is rather aimless. In those circumstances it might be a good idea to leave the weak group behind and play at the top directly, to see how later you can resume the attack
* W84 should probably be at C14 instead. It pushes from behind and thus it is not good, but that saves me to play at B17 later. And it is kind of difficult to use E15 anyway.
W84 is a fancy move but indeed C14 is better.
* I am at another cross road at W90. I want to find a way to reduce black, but I am not sure how to proceed. Is attaching a high stone at L16 a good idea?
Attaching in enemy sphere of influence is the best start to create something out of nothing. Where you attach depends on whether there is also room for escape or if you need to live at the bottom. After Black's hane one usually counter hanes or crosscut to pursue the creation of something, however small.
* W94 should probably be cut at K17.
You come out well.
* The cut at N11 at B137 hurts me a lot. Not sure if there is a better way to handle that or not.
W134 could have been played at P12.
* W198 should probably be just at G1.
Yes, there is only defense here and no need to disturb the capture at the right of black's wall. Again, your critical thinking about such small issues shows a high potential.
Most striking conceptual flaw: after the lower right black group is clearly alive, you keep playing relatively close to it.
A few answers to your questions:
* W18 should probably be at N2 instead of N3. It allows a peek, but it is probably better than losing the corner.
Indeed N2 is the common move. Later the aji of N3 becomes apparent, fortunately the trade was good.
* B53-B55-B57 leads to a tradeoff of corner versus the creation of a weak group. Is this good or bad for black?
A few more points for black's corner for a strong white group and a weak black one. We will all prefer white in this trade.
* I tried to attack the newly created weak group by W62 and W64. Is this the right approach?
Given the wide centre and open top and your stable groups, the profit was to be found at the top, so a capping play for attack was called for.
* At W68, I don't know what to do. I can play G11 to separate black, but I would hate to allow M9 for black. So I play W68 at L9. What should I do instead?
Indeed, Black runs towards the interesting top and White's attack is rather aimless. In those circumstances it might be a good idea to leave the weak group behind and play at the top directly, to see how later you can resume the attack
* W84 should probably be at C14 instead. It pushes from behind and thus it is not good, but that saves me to play at B17 later. And it is kind of difficult to use E15 anyway.
W84 is a fancy move but indeed C14 is better.
* I am at another cross road at W90. I want to find a way to reduce black, but I am not sure how to proceed. Is attaching a high stone at L16 a good idea?
Attaching in enemy sphere of influence is the best start to create something out of nothing. Where you attach depends on whether there is also room for escape or if you need to live at the bottom. After Black's hane one usually counter hanes or crosscut to pursue the creation of something, however small.
* W94 should probably be cut at K17.
You come out well.
* The cut at N11 at B137 hurts me a lot. Not sure if there is a better way to handle that or not.
W134 could have been played at P12.
* W198 should probably be just at G1.
Yes, there is only defense here and no need to disturb the capture at the right of black's wall. Again, your critical thinking about such small issues shows a high potential.
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gostudent
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
Thank you for the comment. No, I don't have a KGS account.
With respect to the conceptual flaw: do you mean W34 or W36 is bad because I play close to the lower right black group? Or that I should play W20 elsewhere, and preserve the aji of the R6 stone later?
I have been working on a book about mid-game patterns and tactics, and I feel like I have learnt a lot from that book. Of course, converting ideas to moves is a completely different question.Knotwilg wrote:There is indeed a bizarre discrepancy between the level of the ideas and the level of execution. Even so, your repertoire of moves is not too bad in itself.
Most striking conceptual flaw: after the lower right black group is clearly alive, you keep playing relatively close to it.
With respect to the conceptual flaw: do you mean W34 or W36 is bad because I play close to the lower right black group? Or that I should play W20 elsewhere, and preserve the aji of the R6 stone later?
Knotwilg wrote: A few answers to your questions:
* W18 should probably be at N2 instead of N3. It allows a peek, but it is probably better than losing the corner.
Indeed N2 is the common move. Later the aji of N3 becomes apparent, fortunately the trade was good.
* B53-B55-B57 leads to a tradeoff of corner versus the creation of a weak group. Is this good or bad for black?
A few more points for black's corner for a strong white group and a weak black one. We will all prefer white in this trade.
* I tried to attack the newly created weak group by W62 and W64. Is this the right approach?
Given the wide centre and open top and your stable groups, the profit was to be found at the top, so a capping play for attack was called for.
* At W68, I don't know what to do. I can play G11 to separate black, but I would hate to allow M9 for black. So I play W68 at L9. What should I do instead?
Indeed, Black runs towards the interesting top and White's attack is rather aimless. In those circumstances it might be a good idea to leave the weak group behind and play at the top directly, to see how later you can resume the attack
* W84 should probably be at C14 instead. It pushes from behind and thus it is not good, but that saves me to play at B17 later. And it is kind of difficult to use E15 anyway.
W84 is a fancy move but indeed C14 is better.
* I am at another cross road at W90. I want to find a way to reduce black, but I am not sure how to proceed. Is attaching a high stone at L16 a good idea?
Attaching in enemy sphere of influence is the best start to create something out of nothing. Where you attach depends on whether there is also room for escape or if you need to live at the bottom. After Black's hane one usually counter hanes or crosscut to pursue the creation of something, however small.
* W94 should probably be cut at K17.
You come out well.
* The cut at N11 at B137 hurts me a lot. Not sure if there is a better way to handle that or not.
W134 could have been played at P12.
* W198 should probably be just at G1.
Yes, there is only defense here and no need to disturb the capture at the right of black's wall. Again, your critical thinking about such small issues shows a high potential.
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ez4u
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
When White plays 216 and Black answers at 217 ( 
and 
below) White has the opportunity to play 
. Black does not have a good answer because of the cut at L18.
and below) White has the opportunity to play . Black does not have a good answer because of the cut at L18.Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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gostudent
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
Thank you! I have completely missed that.
Btw, thank you for your effort to make such a large diagram! It must be a lot of work, and I appreciate that.
Btw, thank you for your effort to make such a large diagram! It must be a lot of work, and I appreciate that.
ez4u wrote:When White plays 216 and Black answers at 217 (
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ez4u
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
It was easy. Certain sgf editors export board positions as diagrams. GoEye (iOS) copies an L19-ready diagram to the clipboard. Kombilo (PC) exports a board position to a text window as an SL-ready diagram that only has to be pasted between L19's 'go' tags. There must be more.gostudent wrote:Thank you! I have completely missed that.
Btw, thank you for your effort to make such a large diagram! It must be a lot of work, and I appreciate that.
...
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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tekesta
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
I won't give any review comments since it's late at night where I live. However, I will recommend replaying pro games to refine intuition and give the brain a database of moves from which to choose. As well, it will help weed out any bad playing habits and aid in understanding Go concepts.
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gostudent
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
Would replaying pro games be too advanced for a 12k player like me?tekesta wrote:I won't give any review comments since it's late at night where I live. However, I will recommend replaying pro games to refine intuition and give the brain a database of moves from which to choose. As well, it will help weed out any bad playing habits and aid in understanding Go concepts.
If I want to replay pro games, how should I start? What type of games that I should choose to replay?
Thanks.
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
Try it and see. Lots of people swear by it - personally I find I get more mileage from reviews in the early game but not so much in the midgame. I find it more useful to compare my games to pro databases to see when I play differently and why. Also (again this is just my personal opinion) I find reviewing a game that has a similar position to one I have just played to be much more engaging and enlightening than reading random matches. (I also prefer commented pro games over just looking at the kifu but both can be fun.).gostudent wrote: Would replaying pro games be too advanced for a 12k player like me?
What I do like is following amature games 5-10 ranks stronger in real time online - the games are live so it forces me to think on my feet. 5-10 ranks means the moves are generally better than those I would make but not so deep as to require pro-level reading and best if all they make mistakes (and get punished for it) which you don't tend to see as often in pro games. I especially like books with commentaries on amature games "how not to play go" is a good one.
But everyone is different. If you want to test if reading pro games will work for you, try a range of pro players - old and new - to see if you like their games. You may find one hard to follow but really enjoy another's style. Also you can try varying the way you replay the game (some suggest studying one game for hours - others just skimming through thousands of games, maybe reading on paper works for you, maybe replaying online or on a physical board is better).
Finally don't be too discouraged if you don't like reading pro games - though it can help it's not necessary to get stronger. (Some may decry this opinion from a lowly sdk - but if you skim through this site you'll find quite a few posts from dans bemoaning the over-emphasis on study and theory in western go players).
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tekesta
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
I do not think so. Although you are not yet at a level advanced enough to allow you to analyze pro games even superficially, you can simply replay game records to begin developing good playing habits. You are currently like the infant who can listen, but cannot yet pronounce words. By the time the infant becomes a toddler, she will have absorbed thousands of hours of conversation and be able to pronounce some words. Of course the child still has to practice how to talk, but exposing her to proper human speech constantly allows the child to have a model to imitate. Eventually, with constant practice and refinement, the child can talk like an adult. This is the view I adopt when replaying pro games.Would replaying pro games be too advanced for a 12k player like me?
In terms of Go, I replay game records constantly to expose myself to the right way to play. My brain stores it in my subconscious mind, so the second time I replay a game record I understand it a little more. I play a few actual games, after which my understanding of the game record has changed and I can make sense of the moves.
If you are hard pressed to know which player to pick, Shusaku Honinbo is a very popular - if not the most popular - choice. I've replayed some of his games and, even though his style is from 1800s Japan, they contain a wealth of examples of solid play worth absorbing. (Go Seigen and Kobayashi Kôichi have replayed collections of Shusaku's games multiple times.) Even I swear by Shusaku, for some reasonIf I want to replay pro games, how should I start? What type of games that I should choose to replay?
Thanks.
A beginner like yourself should choose a player with a "solid", territorial playing style. Later on, if you like, you can choose an influence-based style of play, but making such a style work requires very sharp reading ability and solid middle-game fighting ability. (Takemiya Masaki did not begin using his Cosmic Style extensively until after he achieved 9p.)
In this thread several players are mentioned. http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =16&t=9304
In practice, you can choose whichever style you like. The best way to play in Go is the way that feels most natural to you. Through experience you will learn the strengths and weaknesses of your preferred style. For now, though, just concentrate on gaining experience - mainly through replaying pro game records and playing actual games - and developing strong tactical ability. After all, even the finest strategy is worthless without strong tactical ability to make it reality.
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Re: Request to review a 12k vs 12k game in IGS
https://gogameguru.com/get-better-at-go ... -go-games/gostudent wrote: If I want to replay pro games, how should I start? What type of games that I should choose to replay?
Having games with some explanation is good in my opinion.