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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #41 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:40 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unhidden:
Ok, if he chooses to ignore my threat towards his weak stones, I will continue to attack. I intend to kill, and in the meantime I hope that my attacking will also indirectly help my own weak stone. I feel I'm ahead, but I'm afraid I have overlooked something. Time will tell.

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Last edited by tj86430 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #42 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:52 am 
Gosei
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KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Looks to me like white just traded a bunch of cash for a pretty nebulous attack on a single stone... I don't think that was a very good decision.

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My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #43 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:35 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1744
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . W . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now we see if my plan is any good.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #44 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:18 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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I wont be able to spend much time on this during this weekend, so my next move will probably be on Monday. Sorry about that.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #45 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:32 am 
Gosei

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I still haven't had much time, but I will go with my instinct:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unhidden:
I know that Jowa says "don't run", but I think I have some chance of connecting to my stones in top-middle. I also thought of abandoning my lone invading stone altogether, and I still may, but I want to see how he answers. Not a good reason for a move, but as I said I haven't had much time to think about this, and I don't want to stall the game for any longer.

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Last edited by tj86430 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #46 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:02 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 2 B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 1 O . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 O 5 . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 4 . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O 6 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 B 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 B 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 O 7 . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 6 . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O 8 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It seems like the hane on top is the best bet for maintaining a large-scale attack. All three of these moves (hane on top, hane underneath, descent) have their advantages, but I think this gives me the best chance. If I can chase black towards the center and build a wall facing my lower-left shimari, it will also prep a reduction on the center-right moyo.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #47 Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:51 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Sorry about the delay. This weekend is the midsummer fest in Finland, and I probably won't concentrate much on go until Monday.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unhidden:
Hmm... I really don't know what is the best play here, but I think I will be able to get something useful out of this.

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Last edited by tj86430 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #48 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:18 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
Was liked: 288
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Midsumer fest? Sounds fun!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . 8 6 4 . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 0 O 3 . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . 4 . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . 1 X X X . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 3 O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I fear we have a long and messy fight ahead, but I think can keep my stones alive and capture the four on the left (if B a, W b). Black may live in the corner though, and it's still an open question how I'm going to win the game...

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #49 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:27 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Unhidden:
I can not voluntarily let him have a ponnuki. I don't know how this will end, but at this stage this looks like the only move.

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Last edited by tj86430 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #50 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:51 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O W . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


When I play it out on the board, I usually lose the corner, but live on the side.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #51 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:59 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . W . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White attacks black with standard caping play

6 moves later:
"When I play it out on the board, I usually lose the corner, but live on the side."

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #52 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:31 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let me know if you disagree

I believe this is sente, since if white plays tenuki (e.g. H3), I will continue like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . 3 1 X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . W . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


after which I will either rescue my invading stones or take the corner (unless I have misread, which of course is always at least possible or even likely).

If white answers as expected, I will play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . 4 1 3 . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . B . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think living with the invading group is very hard, if not impossible. Even if I managed to live it would be a tiny life, completely surrounded and in gote.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #53 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:17 am 
Lives in sente
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It is funny how in games at this level sometimes players cling to single unimportant stones, and sometimes they sacrifice a whole side without blinking an eye.

Black could have simply split this side up:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . 7 5 3 1 . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

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Post #54 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:32 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 257
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Rank: Dan player
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . W . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At the first place, I do not want to attach the :ww: stone directly. Perhaps this :b1:?

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Post #55 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:50 am 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . W X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is much better than I could have hoped for. I think black is afraid of a problem that isn't there. I would have played like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . 7 O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . 6 3 1 X . . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 8 2 O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This starts that fight in the corner I thought I might lose. Probably something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . 1 6 . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . X O 2 5 . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . O X X X 4 . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't recall how exactly I read out black's best response, but it seemed black could live in the corner and force my cut off stones to live on top (as I said last post). We should go back and look at it after the game finishes. Anyway, this goes a long way toward making the game even (I'm beginning to think my decision to trade the top for the left was a mistake, but it's too late now). The bad news is that black has sente and there are a lot of big points on the board. I think if we both play our best moves I will probably still lose this game. But it's close enough I'm certainly going to keep playing.

edit: I'm going to guess the two comments coming right after black's play are "what were you thinking??"

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Post #56 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:32 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . B . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


According to original plan. If white got to H3 first, his left side would become huge.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #57 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:45 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . W . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . c . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . a . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . b . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . B . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I can try a move along the edge of our moyos like a or b, try to also take some territory with a move like c, or go all-in with a deep invasion around d. I choose a.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #58 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:21 pm 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O B . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I did expect a move like that. Nevertheless, I'm not sure what the best reply would be. This may lead to a unnecessarily complicated fight, but perhaps I will learn something from it.


BTW, I'm anxious to read all the comments, so if there is anything in the earlier comments that can be unhidden, please do so.

e: and I mean the obervers comments, but I did unhide some of my very early comments for emeraldemon to see. That doesn't mean I expect him to do the same.

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #59 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:58 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1744
Liked others: 704
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's very tempting for me to hane here, but I think the crosscut fight is too dangerous. Anyway if black extends again I can hane at the head of two stones, which is always good, right?

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 Post subject: Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)
Post #60 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:17 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
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Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O B . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The only move I can think of

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