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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #121 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:15 pm 
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I'm Jedo.780

Because of go though I feel like I don't have any real time for starcraft :(

I'll still try to get better though!

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #122 Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:19 am 
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i havent purchased my copy yet, so i´m a bit jealous XD jk.
Did they implement anything nice that the beta didnt have?

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #123 Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:51 am 
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The campaign. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #124 Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:49 pm 
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StarCraft 2 happened, and I went on in instant go-break for over two weeks. The week before release is spent testing out openers and fiddling with the multitask trainer in the map editor, and now I'm playing through the campaign and mostly team games with friends.

For anyone who is playing in Europe, feel free to add me:

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #125 Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:36 pm 
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I've played a bunch of games online now and my impression so far is that the leagues are still very imbalanced. In the bronze league (1vs1 and 2vs2 with my ladyfriend) I mostly get unranked opponents or (in 2vs2) players who are in the platinum or gold league. This is like a 20k playing an even game against a dan player. Limited fun and limited learning. I'd say only about 15-20% of our games have felt even and were not extremely imbalanced with a huge gap in player skill.

I hope that the leagues will stabilize a bit over the next few weeks and that players, who clearly don't belong into bronze or silver, move up to the more appropriate leagues. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #126 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:31 pm 
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I was watching those Day9 daily commentaries. In this game at 8:30 minutes mark he says that he only ever watches replays at "normal" graphics settings and plays on "low" instead. He's a good player, so I'm thinking here that turning graphics to low has some kind of gameplay impact. Do pro gamers in general favor low graphics? FPS and maximum responsiveness is one of the most important things serious gamers want of engines, after all.

I've played some of CS:S and I can say that turning off many of the graphic effects adds clarity to otherwise chaotic environment. I'd be interested to hear other player's stance on this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #127 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:01 pm 
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I can't imagine it's for performance/frame rate reasons. The game is just not that demanding, even when you've got a every Zerg and his brother swarming down on you. My box is rather beefy processor-wise, but it's not that much of a gaming rig (just an HD 5750 for video). Still, it seems to maintain 60 fps at high quality 1920x1080.

The only thing I can think is that a lower graphics setting would have less visual clutter in terms of shadows, particle effects, debris, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #128 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Its the visual clutter. You don't want to process all that useless information such as shadows, lighting, what not when you have only split seconds to react.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #129 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Quote:
I've played a bunch of games online now and my impression so far is that the leagues are still very imbalanced. In the bronze league (1vs1 and 2vs2 with my ladyfriend) I mostly get unranked opponents or (in 2vs2) players who are in the platinum or gold league. This is like a 20k playing an even game against a dan player. Limited fun and limited learning. I'd say only about 15-20% of our games have felt even and were not extremely imbalanced with a huge gap in player skill.

I hope that the leagues will stabilize a bit over the next few weeks and that players, who clearly don't belong into bronze or silver, move up to the more appropriate leagues. :)


I think the leagues and divisions are purely cosmetic. It'll be just like any other ranking system underneath, you have a global rating and you play people within a window around your rating. The window probably gets wider the longer it takes to find someone.

[edit] However, the leagues/divisions do seem to be messed up. I just got 'promoted' from the middle of a gold division to the top of a platinum division (admittedly the new division only has 10 or so people in it). I had a look at the points of some of the people I've played and there are people with more points in silver or gold ... Seems kind of random. Maybe points aren't related to rating and are just used to rank you within your division? Also, saw a post on a random forum claiming he lost 5 games in a row and got promoted, *shrug* [/edit]

[edit2] I checked the match history of 2 other people in the same platinum division, while I've been playing gold/silver, they've been playing diamond/platinum, They were 1st/4th and I'm 3rd in the division, which leaves me questioning what the points you get have to do with anything (other than something local to a division). Also, my opponents seem to mostly be 'slightly favoured' or 'equal'. Perhaps my 'promotion' was a bug :p. In any case, it would suggest that the league/divisions thing is just a facade over some hidden rating system. [/edit2]

Sha.939 (s.e. asian/oceania server)

Btw, does anyone else find themselves thinking in go terms (aji, thickness, etc.)? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #130 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:18 am 
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Aphelion wrote:
Its the visual clutter. You don't want to process all that useless information such as shadows, lighting, what not when you have only split seconds to react.
Indeed. It's what I did when playing Unreal Tournament '99 back in the day: You tune the playing field to make certain things stand out better, for instance turn world texture detail to low to make it a uniform color and model detail to high, so you can see units more clearly against that flatter backdrop.

However, in Day[9]'s case I do think it has to do with frame rates, because he is streaming in high resolution, there's that flash encoder going, and all these other things running on his pc as well. I think that's at least one reason why he does it that way.

schilds wrote:
Btw, does anyone else find themselves thinking in go terms (aji, thickness, etc.)? :)
I do find myself applying the term 'transitioning' in my go analyses now. ^^ Double hoshi into early expand ftw!

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #131 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:32 am 
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schilds wrote:
Btw, does anyone else find themselves thinking in go terms (aji, thickness, etc.)? :)

I think more in terms of "Why are all my dudes wandering over there?", "How do I build firebats?", "Where did my banshees go?", "Yes, I know I need more blast supply depots." and "Why is that building on fire?"

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #132 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:36 am 
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schilds wrote:
Btw, does anyone else find themselves thinking in go terms (aji, thickness, etc.)? :)

Too many people play hamete in the ladder -__-. I'd say over 30% of my matchups have involved 6-pools, cannon rushing, or proxy rax/gates. As if that wasn't annoying enough, they try to hold a conversation to distract you which is just BM.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #133 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:06 am 
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It kinda seems like strong players can get away with an awful lot of hamete. Even a lot of the high-level games I've watched have had some successful early cheese. And when it's not a knockout blow, it at least is fairly successful harassment.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #134 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:54 pm 
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fwiffo wrote:
It kinda seems like strong players can get away with an awful lot of hamete. Even a lot of the high-level games I've watched have had some successful early cheese. And when it's not a knockout blow, it at least is fairly successful harassment.

I've seen that video before; it's hilarious. :D That is a top "foreigner" (non-Korean) doing his placement matches, so basically a 7-dan playing DDKs. He can do whatever he wants and he'll win.

I actually enjoy getting cheesed. It's funny, it teaches me the value of scouting, and it's rewarding when I'm able to see it and counter it.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #135 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Araban wrote:
I'd say over 30% of my matchups have involved 6-pools, cannon rushing, or proxy rax/gates.


I admit I have been using a 6-pool opening in a few zerg games. :p It works really well against many people in the lower leagues, and it actually helps me to learn some "micro". Many things in the game are "cheesy", even stuff like walling off your ramp (the fact that every map has a ramp makes it harder for zerg) or plastering the map with photon cannons.

But I'm generally bad in the middle and end game. If I don't win a game in the first 15 minutes, I'll almost certainly lose. Well, only been a few days, so I guess that's okay! :) (Hmm, in Go my opening is also better than my middle and end game ...)

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Post #136 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:10 am 
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Mivo wrote:
If I don't win a game in the first 15 minutes, I'll almost certainly lose.


Perhaps this is not due to your bad middle and end game, but due to your single-minded opening, which incurs a long-term loss in development.

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Post #137 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:39 am 
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fwiffo wrote:
And when it's not a knockout blow, it at least is fairly successful harassment.


Yes, a 6-pool is often a successful harassment. It has the potential to severely cripple the economy. Mostly your own, but sometimes that doesn't matter.

What I really liked doing in SC1 2on2 was doing a 6-pool while my Protoss partner placed his first two zealots on my ramp, fixing my initial weakness. That strategy used to work surprisingly well ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #138 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:40 am 
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Harleqin wrote:
Perhaps this is not due to your bad middle and end game, but due to your single-minded opening, which incurs a long-term loss in development.


The games where I feel my middle and end game showed that they fairly weak were games that I didn't start with a rush. Those were games where I deliberately planned for a strong/decent middle or end game. Recovering from a failed rush isn't the end for a zerg in the lower leagues. I'm still a beginner, so exploring different approaches. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #139 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:42 am 
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Sorry, I've mostly ever played WC3 (I played a fair bit of 2v2, back in the day). What is 6-pooling?

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft II
Post #140 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:30 am 
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A 4 pool in SC1 or 6 pool in SC2 is the earliest possible attack as Zerg.
You build a pool with your initial workers(4 in SC1, 6 in SC2), then build 6 Zerglings and attack with them. Since you didn't build any workers your economy is pretty crippled, so if you don't hurt your opponent a lot with your initial attack you lose. But if your opponent doesn't know how to defend against Zerglings with his workers he can instantly lose.
In the initial days of SC it was a lot stronger than now since the pool was only 150 Minerals(instead of 200).

Liquipedia - 4 pool in SC1 (longer explanation)
Liquipedia - 6 pool in SC2 (only a stub)

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