Knotwilg wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
As far as I can tell,
influence is a Western term introduced around 50 years ago by Zobrist. I do not equate it with
atsumi or
gaisei. It goes without saying that I do not agree with the treatment on Sensei's Library (See
https://senseis.xmp.net/?Influence ). I use it to mean the effect of a stone or stones on other stones and empty points.
Defining "influence" as "the effect of a stone or stones on other stones and empty points" is too trivial for me. Of course a stone has influence on nearby stones and intersections: that's exactly the difference of it being there or not.
Reduced to its most basic treatment, I define influence and thickness as "some sort of wall" and "a wall that is well connected and alive". One derived meaningful insight is that a firmly connected chain forming a 90° angle with two legs that function at influential walls is thick, because it can make an eyespace-forming base in either direction. Another derived insight is that multiple centre facing walls across the board, can cooperate to form whole board thickness. I know there are other meanings of whole board, like the overall absence of threats, but that's more of a cumulative effect of local thickness. Anyway.
These are useful concepts for me to evaluate an exchange in the corner: White has territory, Black has influence.
In informal parlance I use
influence to mean
outside influence or
central influence. There are many corner fights that end with one side getting territory and the other side getting influence. Using the simpler term, influence, I don't have worry about the niceties of the term,
thickness, which, as John Fairbairn repeatedly points out, Western amateurs do not understand. Furthermore, the simpler term allows me to discuss things such as these positions:
Here is a diagram from jlt's and Ian Butler's first jubango game (
viewtopic.php?t=16386 ).
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Keima enclosure
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is a standard enclosure, one which Go Seigen had no quarrel with in his writings about 21st century go.
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Ogeima enclosure
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$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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But bots these days prefer this enclosure to the keima enclosure. Using the simple idea of influence, can we not say that this enclosure emphasizes territory less and (outside) influence more?
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Two space high enclosure
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Bots also like this enclosure, which humans hardly played before the bot era, and which stresses influence even more, and central influence at that. OTOH, it is hardly thick, it is rather thin for an enclosure.
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8 Old joseki
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O 8 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 0 . X 3 . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In the top right corner White gets territory, Black gets influence. But Leela suggests a different move for
.
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8 Leela's play
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O 8 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Leela suggests this keima. Isn't
in the game both more territory oriented and thick, while Leela's play is both influence oriented and somewhat thinner?
Finally, an example from Go Seigen's writings:
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Yonrensei counter
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
When
makes yonrensei, Go Seigen suggests the one space jump,
. Is
not influence oriented, yet not thick?