Open Samsung Thread

[hyperpape]

Talk about the Samsung here.

The only really surprising thing I saw in the first round was that Lee Changho lost to Tan Xiao, a decent young chinese player, but not obviously a rising star or anything like that.

Also nice: Yamashita Keigo won, but that's not too surprising. His opponent was Yang Jaeho.

[Magicwand]

amature Min was surprisingly strong. he still has a chance to make it to next round.

kongje barely escaped with .5 point win.
i think kongje had .5 win when black tried ko fight.
if black not start ko and took other points then i think he would have won .5 point.
and black lost few easy points on endgame.
(dont quote me on this i am only 4d kgs)

why do they invite old timers and female??
i think it was waste of time and money and not fair for others who can play better game and not made the cut.
also, inviting japanese players just because they hold title in japan is not what i want.
i rather watch stronger players get a chance to win.
i believe it should be open for everyone fairly.

[Harleqin]

The amateur Min was surprisingly strong. He still has a chance to make it to the next round.

Kong Jie barely escaped with a half point win.
I think Kong Jie had a half point win when black tried the ko fight.
If black had not started the ko and taken other points, then I think he would have won by a half point.
Black also lost a few easy points in the endgame. (Don't quote me on this; I am only 4d KGS.)

Why do they invite old-timers and females?
I think it was a waste of time and money and not fair for others, who can play a better game but have not made the cut.
Also, inviting japanese players just because they hold a title in japan is not what I want.
I rather watch stronger players get a chance to win.
I believe it should be open for everyone fairly.

I do not get how you can in the same posting on the one hand acknowledge that people can be surprisingly strong for their background and on the other hand stipulate that whole categories of players should not be allowed to play. Preliminaries can only be organized efficiently down to a certain level, at which you need to more or less arbitrarily decide which groups can send players. At this point, diversity is key.

If you take away the ladder, no one can reach the top.

[Magicwand]

The amateur Min was surprisingly strong. He still has a chance to make it to the next round.

Kong Jie barely escaped with a half point win.
I think Kong Jie had a half point win when black tried the ko fight.
If black had not started the ko and taken other points, then I think he would have won by a half point.
Black also lost a few easy points in the endgame. (Don't quote me on this; I am only 4d KGS.)

Why do they invite old-timers and females?
I think it was a waste of time and money and not fair for others, who can play a better game but have not made the cut.
Also, inviting japanese players just because they hold a title in japan is not what I want.
I rather watch stronger players get a chance to win.
I believe it should be open for everyone fairly.

I do not get how you can in the same posting on the one hand acknowledge that people can be surprisingly strong for their background and on the other hand stipulate that whole categories of players should not be allowed to play. Preliminaries can only be organized efficiently down to a certain level, at which you need to more or less arbitrarily decide which groups can send players. At this point, diversity is key.

If you take away the ladder, no one can reach the top.

Min competed against all professional players and won. that is why he is there. he belongs there.
on cotriary, others i mentioned do not belong there. they competed aginst weaker group and won.

[HermanHiddema]

also, inviting japanese players just because they hold title in japan is not what i want.

Why not? They've proven themselves to be extremely strong, so the only other reason I can think of is that you don't like Japanese people. If that is so, why is that?

[hyperpape]

Yang Jaeho also qualified through the normal preliminaries.

Actually, I'm not sure how qualifications are done, but I think the tournament has 16 members from preliminaries, 4 from the semis of the last tournament, then seeded players. I'm not sure how they're chosen.

Note that Japan had only two seeded players, Yamashita Keigo and Yuki Satoshi. I have no idea how they were chosen.

[John Fairbairn]

Tan Xiao, a decent young chinese player, but not obviously a rising star or anything like that.

Interesting. Pro at 11, still only 17 but 5-dan, 18th in the national ratings, the youngest player in the top 25 (by some margin), and he beat Gu li last week as well as Yi Ch'ang-ho this week. What's your definition of a rising star?

[Harleqin]

Min competed against all professional players and won. That is why he is there. He belongs there.
In contrary, the others I mentioned do not belong there. They competed against a weaker group and won.

All of the players already have passed a knockout four round integration preliminary tournament, in which many big names have disappeared, while players unheard of won. Who are you to rate the strength of those players? Is the fact that Lee Changho and Chang Hao now meet in the first round of the loser's bracket not evidence enough that the level also of the unknown names is at least close to the top?

Let's turn the question around: Which players do you think should have participated in the first round of the integration preliminary tournament?

[Kirby]

also, inviting japanese players just because they hold title in japan is not what i want.

Why not? They've proven themselves to be extremely strong, so the only other reason I can think of is that you don't like Japanese people. If that is so, why is that?

Well, you are kind of jumping to conclusions about the reason for MW's statement. You don't know what data he is taking into account to come to that conclusion.

"Who is strong?" is always an opinion-based question, and your view that some group of players is strong may be based off of evidence that's good enough for you, but may be from a different set of data that MW has. In short, both of your statements can be nothing more than opinions.

But even if your guess about MW's reasoning is correct, it's not something that I advocate it in any way, but said interracial feelings are not a terribly uncommon viewpoint among some Asian countries. There has been some real tension throughout history between some Asian countries, and some are even still alive from times that were a lot rougher than now.

[hyperpape]

Tan Xiao, a decent young chinese player, but not obviously a rising star or anything like that.

Interesting. Pro at 11, still only 17 but 5-dan, 18th in the national ratings, the youngest player in the top 25 (by some margin), and he beat Gu li last week as well as Yi Ch'ang-ho this week. What's your definition of a rising star?

My definition is fine. My information/awareness was lacking.

Also, I think I just did mispeak. While I wasn't aware that he'd beat Gu Li, or that he'd made 18th in the rankings (I thought he was roughly 30th), I probably was looking for a different term. I'm not sure what it was, but stronger than rising star: whatever would describe Chen Yaoye, Han Sanghoon or Park Jungwhan at similar points in their careers.

[hyperpape]

I haven't quite seen evidence that Magicwand dislikes Japanese people, so let's file that under "unfriendly hyperbole". However, I don't think we need to start every discussion as a blank slate. We know Magicwand has extremely unfavorable views of Japanese professionals, and that these views aren't always based on much of anything in particular.

[John Fairbairn]

Also, I think I just did mispeak. While I wasn't aware that he'd beat Gu Li, or that he'd made 18th in the rankings (I thought he was roughly 30th), I probably was looking for a different term. I'm not sure what it was, but stronger than rising star: whatever would describe Chen Yaoye, Han Sanghoon or Park Jungwhan at similar points in their careers.

I think I know what you mean, though I'm not sure of a good term either. You might say that that the three you mention are like Billy the Kid - they've got notches on their guns. Tan is still on the farm drilling tossed up dollars and whisky bottles on the corral fence.

But even there, in the ratings list I mentioned (which was for the pros' preferred one of number of wins) Chen is only two spots above Tan and has an inferior winning percentage (64% to 71%). Of the teenagers the current star may well be Tuo Jiaxi - he's on 80% and in second place on wins behind Xie He (72%).

Maybe the answer is that Tan and Tuo are rising stars, whereas Chen Yaoye, Han Sang-hun and Pak Cheong-hwan are already stars (with superstar being a class above)?

[Chew Terr]

I think I know what you mean, though I'm not sure of a good term either. You might say that that the three you mention are like Billy the Kid - they've got notches on their guns. Tan is still on the farm drilling tossed up dollars and whisky bottles on the corral fence.

This is a VERY vivid way to describe the situation. I like it. =D

[Magicwand]

i will try to explain what the selecting process works:

Min competed against all open division and earned his right to be there.

yang jaeho and seo nungwook were competed in senior only division.
two female competed in female only division.

japanese players were awarded 2 seat and they were picked because they were title holder.
what will happen most likely with japanese players:
they will lost all games unless they play old timers or female players.
i will bet my money on Min the amature if he plays against yamasita.

my whole point is that there are many qualified players who were never given chance because samsung made this a circus by letting weaker players compete.
it is not hate against japanes player. it is a hate against a dumb and unfair player selecting proces.

what i want is a match against two strong player, not a circus.
make all of them come through open division then it will be fair.

edit: in my opinion all chinese players in there are strong players who deserve to be there.

[Kirby]

and that these views aren't always based on much of anything in particular.

How could you possibly know this about another person?