It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:13 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #1 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:52 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Black to play. it is easy if you are know famous tesuji.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #2 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:19 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Posts: 1125
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 121
Rank: KGS 9k
Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 1 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

I know that :b1: kills white before white can kill the black group at H6... but seeing that this is a 1D-4D problem, I am probably missing some deep overall strategy....

_________________
I'm thinking...

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #3 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:22 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 8 6 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 4 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 O 2 9 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 1 3 . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Instantly knew this was http://senseis.xmp.net/?PattingTheRaccoonsBelly. If white four is anywhere else, black captures white.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #4 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:39 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
to:Redundant
object is to save three black stone. that might help you solve the problem.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #5 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:45 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1206
Liked others: 51
Was liked: 192
Rank: KGS 5d
KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
My best attempt
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 8 O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 7 . 4 6 3 5 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Last edited by Shaddy on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #6 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:50 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Try number 2:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 1 4 . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 7 O 2 6 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 3 1 5 8 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O 2 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #7 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:40 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2644
Liked others: 304
Was liked: 631
Rank: kgs 6k
redundant, can't w win the semeai instead?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 6 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O 5 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


my own stab...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . 3 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


edit: so neither of these is w's strongest resistance, shaddy gives a better one. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 4 O 2 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 O 4 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #8 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:50 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1206
Liked others: 51
Was liked: 192
Rank: KGS 5d
KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
jts wrote:
redundant, can't w win the semeai instead?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 6 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O 5 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


my own stab...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . 3 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


edit: so neither of these is w's strongest resistance, shaddy gives a better one. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 4 O 2 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 O 4 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


first diagram: 3 at 5

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #9 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:10 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Shaddy wrote:
My best attempt
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 8 O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 7 . 4 6 3 5 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


cutting at 1 will fail because of this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 6 O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 4 O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 1 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . O O X X X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #10 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:29 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 754
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 144
Rank: Something Dan
GD Posts: 720
Here goes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 7 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 6 O 2 8 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 4 3 1 5 0 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215
Post #11 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:18 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
After 5 frustratingly puzzled minutes I came up with this. Move 1 looks like a good candidate for being a famous tesuji. Does it have a name ? Am I just embarrassing myself again ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 4 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 2 . 5 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

and white has no good 6. White can try other moves but black just plays the move that keeps him ahead in the capturing race.

Edit: This seems much stiffer resistance for white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 1 3 5 . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

But once again white seems to have no good 6.


Aaaand why I'm inevitably wrong:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 a . . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

I think the answer starts at a instead, and is similar to my answer.

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group