This is obviously relevant to KGS. So far, all I have seen are two pieces linked to on Daring Fireball (analysis,announcement). I'm not 100% sure what the ramifications will be--I'm not sure whether there will be any real ones for KGS, but I'm sure someone else is more qualified to answer that.

What I am clear about is that this doesn't prevent anyone from continuing to provide a Java runtime, it just probably won't be Apple.

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Occupy Babel!

Well, if it becomes difficult for apple users to get java runtimes, then I guess it will be time for me to write a web+javascript-based client. Something that would be fun to do, but also something that I just don't have time for.

So we'll see how it plays out. There is a backup plan. Just a fairly painful one.

Edit: I'm liking Jobs less and less each day.

How do you feel about Oracle?

There will be Java distributions available from other sources - either Sun or open source. It's no different from Windows - Microsoft doesn't provide their own Java distribution either.

The problem is that Java has a lot of security issues, and Apple has trouble keeping up to date. They admitted that they are often one release behind; most likely because they don't get any help from Sun when they are updating Java, and have to do all the work over that Sun has done.

Apple has also stopped including Flash on new Macs. I think there are two reasons for this: one, Jobs hates Flash, but two, this is yet another third-party element that has lots of security issues and that Apple won't have to worry about providing updates for. They don't develop them, but they have to provide them in OS updates.

WMS - how would a web + javascript client work? After all, javascript is not related to Java. Is there some reason why you think that combination is doable, whereas other alternatives aren't? And I know I've asked before, but can't you just let someone else do a Mac client?

BTW, I talked to several developers and fellow journalists about this today. Interestingly, I'm the only person I could find who actually uses Java, and that only for CGoban. All the others haven't used a Java app in years, and this includes those who write about software like me. One developer pointed out that Apple may continue to provide Java with OS X Server, as there are a number of enterprise tools that use Java, such as JAMF, and even FinalCut Server.

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My blog about Macs and more: Kirkville

Right, javascript has nothing to do with java. To do it, I would keep the standard java client, but run it inside the web server; then the "GUI" of the client would be replaced with something that generated HTML pages. The javascript would be needed to make it feel more like an app and less like a web page. E.g., to have clocks tick down, to keep the chat scrolling as it comes in, stuff like that. A design like that would make this reasonable, unlike (for example) a full rewrite of the client into objective C.

There's also the option of using the java-to-javascript compiler that Google has. I've never tried it, but if that works well then it may be possible to put more logic onto the client. I was planning on looking into that as an option when/if I get around to the web-based client.

I think a web based client makes the most sense since that would also work on devices like iPad, iPhone, etc.

Agreed. As well as Android, Windows phone, etc.

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My blog about Macs and more: Kirkville

Android already has a native client of course.

Right, but my point was more that a web-based client could mean that he could stop developing the Android client, as well as providing a client for other platforms.

This said, I'm not sure how well it would work. Ideally, if wms were to make a web-based client, he should probably have it wrapped in a browser program at the appropriate window size. If it's run in a browser, the different versions may have boards that are too small or too big. (I'm trying to think how this could work to ensure that the display is right on different devices; you'd have to be able to scale the actual board on your browser to get it to be the right size, or the web site could provide links to different sized windows for different devices...?)

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My blog about Macs and more: Kirkville

Board / window / screen sizes: The more flexible the better. I.e., every window component should be floating / dockable / hidable / resizable. Firstly because of very different screen sizes, secondly because some screens / tablets are in vertical (portrait) position.

Java security gaps: Which do you have in mind? These come to my mind: a) Each executable is an additional attack target in principle. b) It is hard to impossibe to seperate well different Java applications from each other. c) Usage at LOW integrity level is badly or not documented for Java (and mostly the applications, too).