Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

General conversations about Go belong here.
Post Reply
User avatar
ez4u
Oza
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
Rank: Jp 6 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: ez4u
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 2351 times
Been thanked: 1332 times

Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by ez4u »

My game with topazg is my first try at a Malkovich. It is a lot of fun but feels slightly weird. In trying to explain each (or at least most) plays, I feel more constrained to play with a strong logical connection to the previous move(s) than I normally do. I am wondering whether the fact of writing about each play creates a tendency toward confirmation bias. In other words does the act of writing about the previous play lead us to try to fit our thinking about the current play into the mold created in the past?

It reminds me of one of the great lines in English literature when (in Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice") Miss Elizabeth Bennett asks, "Would Mr. Darcy then consider the rashness of your original intention atoned for by your obstinacy in adhering to it?"

I have this fear that normally I am of that school that believes that, "If you can't be good, be obstinate!" And that the Malkovich format only makes it worse. :blackeye: How do others see the effect of publicly disclosing their deepest plans?
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
User avatar
Chew Terr
Gosei
Posts: 2060
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:45 pm
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 546 times
Been thanked: 172 times
Contact:

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by Chew Terr »

Yes, I can definitely see that happening. I am a BIT more driven by whims, so I admittedly do still throw out plans and say as much, in my comments. However, it does make it easy to be reminded of your earlier plans, so you feel like you ARE having to throw something out, rather than just thinking better of it.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
User avatar
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
Posts: 2116
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 am
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Location: Silicon Valley
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 330 times
Contact:

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by daniel_the_smith »

I don't re-read my old posts in a malkovitch until the game is over. Usually I no longer agree with at least half of what I said...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by Kirby »

I feel this way sometimes - after all, I am very obstinate.

However, I am also sometimes hit by a lack of confidence. I know that others will see my weaknesses by playing a public game - that's part of the reason I force myself to play them. If my weakness is exposed, maybe I can see a glimpse of it, too.

But it also affects my decision making process.

A lot of times when I'm playing go, especially when I play fast games these days (I've been playing with no main time, and 30 seconds byo-yomi), I have a feeling of a way to play, but I'm not really sure what the result will be.

In real-time games, sometimes I guess what a result will be. But this leads me to doubt myself sometimes in Malkovich games. Sometimes I change my plans on a whim, because I am afraid that I was wrong. People will see my weakness, but maybe if I change my play - then maybe they can see that I have learned something...

But sometimes I haven't learned anything at all, and have just doubted my previous plan. I have doubt. Maybe that doubt is correct for a given situation, and maybe it's not. But it's a bit scary to publicly announce what I think all of the time.

I think this has resulted in me providing less comments at times. I'll try to leave more comments on my games. After all, that's why I'm playing publicly. I want people to point out my flaws. Still, it's hard for me to do, sometimes.

It's scary that people will realize my mediocrity - but even if they don't realize it, it's still there.
be immersed
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by topazg »

Sometimes it has exactly that effect on me, sometimes it doesn't.

I quite enjoy the revelation of saying "Oh no, I've gone and got it all wrong, I'm dead now" - I think seeing dan players go "Man, I've messed up again" is kinda reassuring for kyu players and other dan players alike.
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I think that any go player with a healthy ego has confirmation bias. "My last move must have been good, because I played it."
Malkovich just makes this bias more obvious.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
snorri
Lives in sente
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:15 am
GD Posts: 846
Has thanked: 252 times
Been thanked: 251 times

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by snorri »

Sometimes when I see explanations based on heuristics I roll my eyes. Often I feel that the player explaining their move had already decided what they want to play instantly and without thinking, but that they now feel compelled to make an excuse for it.

The problem is that you can create nice-sounding excuses for any move. That doesn't make the move stronger. More importantly, it does not necessarily mean that weaker players can collect those excuses and use them to find better moves, because it's often very dependent on the particular situation.

O Meien's book "Zone Press Park" is almost incomprehensible, but one thing I like about it is that he often says things like, "I don't know whether this is as a good move or a bad move, only that this is how I would play." He frequently admits being clueless.
User avatar
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
Posts: 2116
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 am
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Location: Silicon Valley
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 330 times
Contact:

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:I think that any go player with a healthy ego has confirmation bias. "My last move must have been good, because I played it."
Malkovich just makes this bias more obvious.
I think a better example of confirmation bias in go is reading out a move you think works to see how good it is for you instead of trying to find a way it fails.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
User avatar
Fedya
Lives in gote
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:21 pm
Rank: 6-7k KGS
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Re: Malkovich and Confirmation Bias

Post by Fedya »

The good news is, I'm not good enough to have confirmation bias.

The bad news is, it means I have little confidence in most of my moves. :-|
Post Reply