[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . a . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 3 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . 1 X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe, just maybe, I can endure ... a count will be necessary shortly.
No matter what, this move should be at 1 for sure. Following with 2, and 3. It's huge! It's bad thinking not to play 1. You might lose two stones, but you will get a chance to kill a huge group. Even if you want to resist the urge to kill, you can still AT LEAST use the aji available. Also, it lets black connect way too easily, which harm's white's left side!
-edit- I'm wrong about this sequence, see topazg's sequence below!
See:
$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . 3 . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . 1 . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X . O a . . . . . . 5 4 . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . 3 . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . 1 . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X . O a . . . . . . 5 4 . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
etc etc. I don't think white can win now with this last move. It's been a good game. Also, I believe there is a tesuji in that shape around a for black to get into his moyo yet again.
Something like this:
$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . 3 . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . 5 1 . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X 8 O 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . 3 . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . 5 1 . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X 8 O 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:43 pm
by topazg
ketchup wrote:Move sequences and stuff ..
Your B1 that must be played doesn't work - Read the cut at H7 for Black after your sequence
Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:46 pm
by ketchup
topazg wrote:
ketchup wrote:Move sequences and stuff ..
Your B1 that must be played doesn't work - Read the cut at H7 for Black after your sequence
Sorry, please clarify, I'm having a hard time with seeing these sequences on the diagrams on here. Might not need diagrams, but at least some sequences please and also which diagram? I just copied and pasted, so it's not all labeled. The tesuji? I don't think I state any move must be played for black. And for the move for white, I don't see any better alternative because of his many shape issues.
Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:54 pm
by topazg
ketchup wrote:
Sorry, please clarify, I'm having a hard time with seeing these sequences on the diagrams on here. Might not need diagrams, but at least some sequences please and also which diagram? I just copied and pasted, so it's not all labeled. The tesuji? I don't think I state any move must be played for black. And for the move for white, I don't see any better alternative because of his many shape issues.
Sorry, I meant for White:
$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . a . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 3 O X O 8 . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . 1 X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . a . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 3 O X O 8 . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . 1 X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Hahaha I see. My mistake! I guess that shape is just no good. I guess it's expected that I saw the weakness for later when looking for black to play, but didn't see it for white to play . This makes more sense, since I was being confused by the B1. Thank you for the sequence/diagram.
Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:05 pm
by topazg
ketchup wrote:
Hahaha I see. My mistake! I guess that shape is just no good. I guess it's expected that I saw the weakness for later when looking for black to play, but didn't see it for white to play . This makes more sense, since I was being confused by the B1. Thank you for the sequence/diagram.
No problem, sorry for being confusing I left "a" on there because as you can see in the final position a move around there is vital for White, meaning that Black not only captured those stones to live, but got them in sente, and the left hand side still isn't properly fixed:
$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . a . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . 3 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . 5 4 . 1 X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . a . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . 3 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . 5 4 . 1 X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's a fairly big reduction for later
Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:47 pm
by ketchup
topazg wrote:
No problem, sorry for being confusing I left "a" on there because as you can see in the final position a move around there is vital for White, meaning that Black not only captured those stones to live, but got them in sente, and the left hand side still isn't properly fixed:
$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . a . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . 3 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . 5 4 . 1 X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X | $$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . . O O O O . . a . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . 3 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . 4 . 1 X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 X . X O X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Here it is 5 though. This cleans the aji I believe. I browsed through a few of the variation, and this was the only one that quickly dealt with the aji as best as possible.
Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:49 pm
by topazg
Quite right, I got those moves the wrong way round I think. Better to play the peep first, but then it's a gote capture of two stones again.
I thought he couldn't connect. I was wrong. Here's how this is going to play out:
When I misread, I really shoot myself in the foot.
. This makes more sense, since I was being confused by the B1. Thank you for the sequence/diagram.