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#225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=8995

Page 8 of 8

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:31 pm
by The Intrepid
Kirby is throwing stones around, hoping one of them sticks. :) Should I respond or ignore?

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:23 pm
by The Intrepid
I am struggling to decide between "a" and "b." Both seem to be very good. Gotta do some more reading.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . a X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:52 am
by The Intrepid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I were in byo-yomi, I would simply extend at K16. However, given that there are no time limitations for this game, I don't mind playing a more complicated move. Whether the played move is actually objectively better than the solid K16 extension (or hane at K15 or M15) is not clear to me. One factor which influenced my decision is that White's D18 stone reduces the value of Black's moyo on the top edge.

Next, I expect White to play K16 himself, potentially trying to apply pressure against my five stones in the top-left. I plan to cross-cut in response.

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:36 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
If I were playing white...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . W . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:10 pm
by The Intrepid
In retrospect, the 51st move was unnecessarily greedy. Managing the moyo would have been much easier if I just pushed at R14. This is the move Takemiya style likely called for.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That said, the way the game has developed so far does not seem bad at all. If I am able to handle the present fight well enough, I'll have a significant lead.

Edit:
Likewise, I probably should have simply captured the R14 cutting stone on move 57 instead of playing at Q18. White would have lived in the corner, but the moyo would be immensely thick and I would have sente to reinforce it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X C X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:03 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . 2 X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I recall someone saying that a move is sente if you hope your opponent ignores. I think my last play was sente :-)

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:37 pm
by The Intrepid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . O X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let the fun begin ... or, rather, continue! :D

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:27 pm
by Kirby
I'll think about this for a bit. I am in Black's area of influence, so I must expect for him to get points here and there.

My goals are to:
1.) Be light and flexible - I tend to make heavy shapes in these situations.
2.) Maximize my benefit in his area.

I'm not yet sure how I want to play here, yet, and I may take some time. I'll be with my son in the hospital for a little while, so it's not clear how much focus I can give the game in the near future.

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:10 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Kirby wrote:.... I'll be with my son in the hospital ...

:o :o

Is it ok to ask what put him there?

Whatever it is, I hope all goes well.

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:09 am
by The Intrepid
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Kirby wrote:.... I'll be with my son in the hospital ...

:o :o

Is it ok to ask what put him there?

Whatever it is, I hope all goes well.


:o

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:30 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . O X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . X O . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . 2 . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Joaz:
I sent you a PM. I'm generally pretty transparent about my feelings and thoughts on this forum, but I guess it'd be pretty off-topic to delve into those details here.

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:03 pm
by The Intrepid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . O X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . 1 X O . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Incidentally, if White extended to J16 instead, the Black L12 stone offered nice defensive possibilities, such as :b8: in the variation below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . 4 5 . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . 1 O X 3 . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . X O 6 . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . 2 7 . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . X O . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . O O X O . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . X O X . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . X O 1 . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . 3 2 4 5 . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . B 6 . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O 7 . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:15 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . O X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . 1 X O . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . 2 O . . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So much for playing lightly. I think I don't understand the concept.

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:30 pm
by Bill Spight
Kirby wrote:So much for playing lightly. I think I don't understand the concept.


;) ;) ;)

Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:57 pm
by The Intrepid
Well, I'm not seeing it (the tesuji which will suddenly cause me to lose the game). All I'm seeing is 5th-line territory coming my way (even if there is still the possibility of the sente monkey jump for White). However, the fact that Kirby's post gets liked by ez4u and that Bill makes a post right after this is making me nervous. The obvious move is simply to extend at "a", but perhaps I should calculate in depth other possibilities, such as "b" through "h." Maybe I'm the one who has a tesuji up his sleeve in this position. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O O .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . O X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . a X X O c . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . b O O d . . . . X O X .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O|
$$ |. . . . h . . f e . X . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . g . . X O . . . O X O .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , O X . O . X O . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . X .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
All times are UTC-07:00
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