Life In 19x19

tchan001 wrote:What is wrong is posting something which was meant to be a private conversation in public especially after the other party of the conversation explicitly told you not to.

tchan, I think that is the proper and respectful way to behave. I agree with that as a general rule. However, there must be exceptions to the rule. If someone is abusing his power against you and essentially admits to it in private conversation, should you be expected to keep it private? I think not. This is especially true when this person tries to insinuate to the public that whatever you did was bad enough without specifying exactly what it was. Think about the power situation here, if you take away the right to share private communications under all circumstances, xDragon (or any other user) must essentially submit to admin abuse without a way to convince the public that they're not whining just trolls. After all, BigDoug could just go on claiming that he's given a reason for a punishment in private, it is not to be shared, and that this secret reason was good enough to justify the punishment. Most of us would just believe BigDoug because we tend to believe people in authority and god knows there are millions of terrible trolls online. I certainly would have dismissed whatever xDragon had to say without him sharing all this stuff.

tchan001 wrote:As to what you personally posted, I'd say that it is not exactly the most respectful thing to ask in public if a KGS admin died of blood loss just because you don't see them online. You can honestly not know what happened to glue, but the way you asked is honestly not the best way to say it.

If you felt that any disrespect was meant to glue, I think that this is just a huge misunderstanding. They were joking about an imaginary glass box (sort of like one that would be around a fire alarm or a nuclear launch button) that might surround the button to make admins' messages bold. The joke was that if such a glass box existed, then some admins might die from blood loss after breaking the box many times. The part about glue wasn't really about glue. It was just a follow-up joke: "[Some admin who hasn't been around lately] must have pushed the button too many times, haha." It's the kind of thing that would go over well at comedy clubs or on Letterman. The comment did not occur in a vacuum, but within the context of an ongoing joke. It's just a clever joke and we can see Mef, another admin, joining in the harmless fun.

ok, lemmata, thank you for your explanation.

I think that since xDragon has opened up a can of worms by posting private conversations between himself and BD, perhaps BD may choose to post other PMs with other details which have not been previously disclosed to the public.

BigDoug wrote:pasting the text of private chats is generally not approved of - Once a person does that, then they can hardly complain if others do it to that person

lemmata wrote:

tchan001 wrote:What is wrong is posting something which was meant to be a private conversation in public especially after the other party of the conversation explicitly told you not to.

tchan, I think that is the proper and respectful way to behave. I agree with that as a general rule. However, there must be exceptions to the rule. If someone is abusing his power against you and essentially admits to it in private conversation, should you be expected to keep it private? I think not. This is especially true when this person tries to insinuate to the public that whatever you did was bad enough without specifying exactly what it was. Think about the power situation here, if you take away the right to share private communications under all circumstances, xDragon (or any other user) must essentially submit to admin abuse without a way to convince the public that they're not whining just trolls. After all, BigDoug could just go on claiming that he's given a reason for a punishment in private, it is not to be shared, and that this secret reason was good enough to justify the punishment. Most of us would just believe BigDoug because we tend to believe people in authority and god knows there are millions of terrible trolls online. I certainly would have dismissed whatever xDragon had to say without him sharing all this stuff.

It's extremely important to remember however that it's extremely easy to take private messages out of context and since private chats are not stored on KGS, short of you having the foresight to screengrab that conversation there is almost no way for you to show you were taken out of context other than by asking people to believe such based on your word and whether they will or not usually depends on what way they were leaning before the whole thing was revealed.

Boidhre wrote:... private chats are not stored on KGS....

Private chats are stored on KGS, at least for a while. We can ask for a "snoop" to look at them, provided there's a good reason to do so (such as a user complaining about being harassed in PM).

Another reason to use the hacked client: it has a feature to record chats to log files.

Nyanjilla wrote:

Boidhre wrote:... private chats are not stored on KGS....

Private chats are stored on KGS, at least for a while. We can ask for a "snoop" to look at them, provided there's a good reason to do so (such as a user complaining about being harassed in PM).

Sorry, I was unclear. I mean, that as a user I do not have a chat history for private conversations using the normal client.

Btw, xDragon's latest example is a perfect illustration of why I think I, or even a salt cellar, cow turd or loaf of bread would be a better admin than BigDoug. What problem was he trying to solve with his admin intervention? hopf using the enter key to separate phrases instead of sentences. Oh no! The calamity! The result was creating a problem not solving one. Better to just be quiet and not do anything at all.

Uberdude wrote:Oh no! The calamity!

Could you please write longer sentences?

Uberdude wrote:Btw, xDragon's latest example is a perfect illustration of why I think I, or even a salt cellar, cow turd or loaf of bread would be a better admin than BigDoug. What problem was he trying to solve with his admin intervention? hopf using the enter key to separate phrases instead of sentences. Oh no! The calamity! The result was creating a problem not solving one. Better to just be quiet and not do anything at all.

He's just doing his job to stop hopf from filling up the chat area with text.
Under KGS TOS, there are certain behaviors that are absolutely not tolerated at KGS including:

"Flooding" (filling a chat area with text)

How could you be a better admin if you didn't do your job in preventing this type of behavior?

Uberdude wrote:Another reason to use the hacked client: it has a feature to record chats to log files.

You also promote the used of a modified client. Which is also against KGS TOS

Somehow I don't think they will invite you to be an admin at KGS anytime soon.

tchan: you have a poor understanding of flooding. Spot the difference:

kydyodydufif
upfpufuofpufpu
oufupdupfpud
oydyofyof
pufuofuof
iydoydkydupdyodyos
ouduoduodpud
often its swear words not nonsense
lyxyldlufulfjlfulucufif ufupfupfulful ufoupuf
oydyoykdludlud

and:

the message is:
do you want to close the game?

Uberdude, I remember having been warned in the past for talking too much in EGR in full sentences in a conversation. Seems like they don't want people talking excessively there as that could be classified as flooding.
I am aware of the type of flooding you are talking about. Just letting you know that flooding in KGS seems to be classified more broadly.
Please also note that we are only presented with a segment of the chat and do not know how frequent hopf posted prior to this segment. The "please don't press the enter key so often" was the type of warning I remember receiving for talking too much in EGR chat.

Indeed, KGS makes it clear that talking in EGR is something frowned on. The admins even go the extra mile and make it clear that being in KGS is something that should be avoided altogether, that's why they create rules and change the definition of well known concepts (like flooding) just to troll their users.

xDragon: you must have realized by now that wms and the KGS admins do not want you around. Man up and move on to a different server where your presence is appreciated. I usually avoid places where I feel unwelcomed, I advise you to do the same.

They usually want you to move the long chats to ECR if you wish to continue what you were conversing on EGR.

tchan001 wrote:Uberdude, I remember having been warned in the past for talking too much in EGR in full sentences in a conversation. Seems like they don't want people talking excessively there as that could be classified as flooding.
I am aware of the type of flooding you are talking about. Just letting you know that flooding in KGS seems to be classified more broadly.
Please also note that we are only presented with a segment of the chat and do not know how frequent hopf posted prior to this segment. The "please don't press the enter key so often" was the type of warning I remember receiving for talking too much in EGR chat.

KGS doesn’t have a broader definition of flooding, it’s just BigDoug (afaik) who has his own idea that more than 3 consecutive lines of text by the same user is a BAD THING (I can’t remember if he actually considers it “flooding” contrary to the widely understood meaning of that term) and issues his admin commands and punishments accordingly.

You are correct that xDragon’s clip doesn’t show earlier chats and hpof could indeed have posted 4 consecutive lines of text, but based on the writing we can see he doesn’t seem like a bad person who needs instructing or telling off. Yes BigDoug is polite when he does it, saying please (but I at least find his style rather condescending), but people don’t like being told what to do, even politely, so I think it’s best to save admin intervention for those problems sufficiently serious to warrant it. Otherwise you piss people off, make them used to ignoring admin instructions, and diminish the respect and authority of admins; rather like the boy crying wolf.