Page 9 of 16

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:39 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X W . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:56 am
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . B O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can't tell for sure if it's alive or not, so I may as well try.

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:08 am
by Marcus
Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . B O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can't tell for sure if it's alive or not, so I may as well try.


Isn't this just L+1? White should come out with sente, therefor it's dead, right?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | 3 B O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:31 am
by prokofiev
Marcus:
2 at 3 makes it a straight J Group, which, neglecting any outside funny business, is ko: http://senseis.xmp.net/?JGroup

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:32 am
by daniel_the_smith
Black can descend to make the straight J group, so black can at least make ko. EDIT: dangit, ninja'd

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:42 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:51 am
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | B . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And now, for ko. W has a few forcing moves on the right side that make good ko threats. While I actually think that he has more ko threats, I'm not certain of it, and, worst comes to worst, could at least get something out of ko. Part of me does say to leave here and take sente. If I could better count the threats, I feel like I could more easily decide if I should fight this or not.

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:58 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This group is known as the large pig's mouth group in chinese, and if i have learned a single thing in all the time i've played go, it's that this group is dead if w is to play.

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:04 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . B O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm unfamiliar with that name. Mind playing it out with me to show me how it dies?

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:08 pm
by prokofiev
On the status of this group:
As in the Sensei's link above for J Group, it still may be ko due to the weakness of the B6 stone.

Edit: Or does the clamp work here for life? I'm not sure how far black gets to crawl.

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:21 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | W . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Certainly.

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:28 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | B O . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | O . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Cool.

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:33 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . W X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | O . X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:39 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Wow, someone really wants a big kill.

Re: 66. Shaddy(1d) vs. Chew Terr(5k)

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:53 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . X X X . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . X O O O O X O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O . X O O X , O X O X O X X X O |
$$ | . O X O . . O X X X X X X X O X O O . |
$$ | O B X O X O . O X . O . X O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought about taking B7 instead, but I saw no reason not to take this first..
Trigger:
If you A3, I B7. If you A7 or B7, I A3.