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165 LexC vs EdLee

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=5979

Page 9 of 17

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:51 am
by LexC
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm77 Prisoners: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X 1 . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
76 is absolutly sente

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:04 am
by topazg
@Loons:
Interesting move ideas - I was actually thinking about this for Black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm73 Prisoners:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . B O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . B O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . B . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
It may be the wrong direction with Black's wall, but the change in the corner is nothing to be unhappy about, and Black's doing fairly ok with points at this stage I think.

EDIT: now that Black has defended :w72:, this also seems nice:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Prisoners:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . X . a . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O 1 O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 3 5 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . 4 . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
With moves around "a" as sente, this seems a reasonable way of making points, but if White plays "b" now I guess White will have a good chance of gaining at least as much from the exchange. I guess continuing locally is still fairly high priority?

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:10 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm78 Prisoners: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Sente, I believe.
Perhaps this shows a problem with :b73:( :bc:) -- if it was at (a) directly, then :w78: would not be sente now?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm78
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O a B . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |[/go]
If I don't do anything locally, B can push and cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O 1 O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:24 pm
by yithril
Hmm, why not just directly protect the cut? I guess this makes Black cover a point if he defends, but white has to defend anyway. I'm still thinking whether or not I'd ignore this as Black...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 Prisoners: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . e . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . 4 2 3 6 . . c X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O 9 8 O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . 0 . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O 5 X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . d . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
A-D are all big points for Black. D I'm still reading out. I mean, as Black, I might play at 2 which is huge. I also think if White ignores, I can escape with my stones with e and that would be pretty awful for White, meaning he'd have to let me start erasing a lot from beneath. Hmm

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:28 am
by LexC
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm79 Prisoners: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
what I read
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm79 Prisoners: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . 5 . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O 1 X 4 . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O 2 O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm79 Prisoners: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O 1 X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O 3 O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:36 am
by EdLee
Hi LexC, did you play :b79: ? It's not showing in your last post:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm79 Prisoners: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:45 pm
by jts
I don't think it's going to fluster anyone if we reveal that the hidden comment assumes he played this :b79: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm79 Prisoners:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O 1 X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:41 pm
by EdLee
jts, thanks. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80 Captures: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
If I don't follow up locally with something like :w80:,
then it'd be better if I didn't do the :w78:- :b79: exchange at all,
because all that does is make :wc: (which was lighter by itself) much heavier after :w78: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm78
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O 2 X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . W . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 3 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |[/go]
Re-cap 1:
I most likely (?) botched the sequence (joseki) starting with :b43: --
even though it happened in at least two recent-ish Malkovich games,
but they were over a year (?) ago, and I hadn't had enough experience with :b43: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm43
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . O .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
A little compensation --
the 5 sente moves :wc:'s (e.g. good for the yose on the left edge);
B may be a little over-concentrated (about 10 points for the :wt: area ?);
B still has to watch his liberties (after (a) and (b) filled, etc.) :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O .
$$ | . W X Q . . . X O , O .
$$ | . W X Q . . . X O . . .
$$ | . W X Q X X b . X . . .
$$ | . . O X X W . . . . . .
$$ | . O . O a W . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re-cap 2: maybe :w62: (c) was better at :w1: instead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . X . O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O 1 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . c . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |[/go]
Re-cap 3: My feeling is the tengen B stone is not very well placed any more, but I could be wrong.
In other words, given this board, B probably would not put a stone at (d) ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . d . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:25 pm
by jts
I don't think that's how tewari works... You have to show that a black stone is misplaced and no white stones are similarly misplaced, no?

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:47 pm
by yithril
Black can just reduce White's center and strengthen his group at the bottom.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:00 pm
by EdLee
Further thoughts:
Although :b67: ( :bc:) was nice for B locally (giving W bad shape),
globally maybe it was a bit slow? As it gave W a few nice sente moves :wc:
(a long time ago, perhaps :b29: ( :bt:) also was a bit slow? ) :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . Y X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . B . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X W . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . W . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . W X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For :b77: : in the real game, later, :white:(a) is big --
even if B replies to it, W still has a nice local follow-up at (b):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm76
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . .
$$ | . O 1 X . . . . . , . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 . X . b . O . . O .
$$ | a X . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------------[/go]
If :b1: instead, then :w2: would be a nice follow-up for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . O . .
$$ | . O W X . . . . . , . . . .
$$ | . O X . . X . . . O . . O .
$$ | . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------------[/go]
Loons,
A long time ago, in Post #10, you asked about the right side, why invade at (c) with :w10: and not approach with :w1: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
At that time I said I didn't know, and I still don't. :)
But, now I wonder: if something like below, maybe very naturally the tengen :bc: would end up at a funny place ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
In the real game, after :w10: (c), B got a thick wall, and I've had
to spend the whole game worrying about it, and have to play dame moves
like :w40: to reduce it, so I'm very curious to find out after the game whether :w10: was OK or bad. :)

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:07 pm
by LexC
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm81 Captures: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
What I read
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm81 Captures: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O 4 1 7 . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . 3 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:00 am
by EdLee
Considering :w1: ; other replies around (a) seem soft, but we'll see.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O a B . 1 . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 165 LexC vs EdLee

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:38 am
by LexC
I did not read :w86:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm81 Captures: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . 3 2 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
However I can play like this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm81 Captures: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O 8 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 6 0 . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm91 Captures: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:27 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm82 Captures: :b1: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . X X O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X O . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . . X . . . . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Hmm, difficult yose... I don't know what to do. :oops:
For example, something like :w1: only helps B get more stones on the outside:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . .
$$ | . . O 3 X 8 . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 1 4 . . . .
$$ | . . . . 5 6 . . . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X X . X . . . O
$$ | . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 9 of 17

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