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37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=695

Page 9 of 11

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:44 am
by Marcus
:shock: A conversation! Holy moly ... people are still WATCHING this game? LOL

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:48 am
by Redundant
Wow. We finally got interesting enough to comment on.

I just ordered an actual board. I'm gonna wait on my next move until it arrives, and I can play over the game on it.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:37 pm
by ketchup
If it makes you feel any better, I've been following this game since the beginning and occasionally commenting on it. I enjoyed the earlier parts of this game, a lot more than these later ones.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:50 pm
by Marcus
Redundant wrote:I just ordered an actual board. I'm gonna wait on my next move until it arrives, and I can play over the game on it.


That's fine by me. I'll be waiting.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:33 pm
by Redundant
Count
I count ~50 points in upper left, ~20 points in upper right, ~10 points in lower right. I'm not gonna assign anything on bottom. I have about 90 points.

White has ~20 points in lower left, depending on c7 cut, about 10 points on top. White needs the middle to make 60 points. I don't feel like white can make this many there. White can get >10 on top with some work, though.

Can I get some observers opinions on the count? I really need to work on my ability to judge positions.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:43 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm83 Move 83 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My count, rudimentary as it is, has me slightly ahead. I'm going to play safely here. White playing this point gave a lot of difficulties. This move will get rid of h12 agi. White can solidify his center a little more with his next move, but I have multiple ways into the center. Also, this move enlarges my corner compared to what I counted previously.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Move 82 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . b . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . c O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All three of these reduce the middle. In fact, I have much more endgame everywhere. My territory is very solid. White has large potential.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:02 am
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm84 Move 84 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Welcome back.

Let's close up some territory. I really need to get better at counting ... I have no clue about the score. Seems like my opponent has made a count, though.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:20 am
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85 Move 85 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . 1 . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He chose to prevent me from coming in from the bottom, so I'll reduce this way. He can force me to connect all the way on the right in sente. If he does not, I can still take sente points there later.

Also, my count before forgot about komi.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:41 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm86 Move 86 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . 1 . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can't hold on to everything. Just holding on to what I can ... I need a plan, but I can't see much that would do me any good on this board. If my opponent plays calmly, I'm pretty sure I'm behind by enough that the game is his. I may have a few complications to play later, but he's quickly fixing all his groups.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:49 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm87 Move 87 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . 1 O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This shores up my bottom group, and is definite sente. I'll come back to reducing from the top after this area settles. If I'm able to give my bottom group 100% life through this, I'll cut at c7. If I do it now, I might mess up my connection/capture sequence.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:40 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm88 Move 88 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O X O . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trying to defend by removing an option ... expect the following (or something like it):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm88 Move 93 at G7 -=-marked White stone-=-
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X W 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O X O . 7 . . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:51 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm89 Move 89 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O . . 1 . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move by my opponent is questionable. I don't see any threat to my top left group, and he lets me get this turn to demolish his center. Also, I can still capture the two stones at H5 and H6. It covers the C7 cut, but I can still hane beneath it. Also C8 looks like a tesuji.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:59 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm90 Move 90 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O . . X . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X O X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Gotta try this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm90 Move 90 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O . . X . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X . 2 . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X 4 X . X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . 5 3 . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think, just maybe, I can kill ... but I haven't really read through it ... however, it's a chance to turn this thing around.

I may regret this when I review the game in the morning ... but we've gotta have a little fun in this game, right? ;)

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:25 pm
by Redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Move 91 - Prisoners: B=2, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O . . X . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X . 1 . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I won't have any problem living. I feel that allowing this capture is a huge mistake. It pillages his center area.

Re: 37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:32 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm92 Move 92 - Prisoners: B=2, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . X . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . O . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . X X X O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O . . X . O . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . 1 . X O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here goes nothing ...
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 9 of 11

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