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#218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=8497

Page 10 of 14

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:32 am
by The Intrepid
A pro could probably live there. I wish Lee Sedol were handling the White pieces. ;)

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:42 pm
by quietimes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:18 am
by ikkyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X 3 X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that white has to play at O9, Q9, or R9 to defend all these cut points. Otherwise something like this may happen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . 5 O X O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . 3 O 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O 9 7 6 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . 4 O X O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . 3 O 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:55 am
by quietimes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X 3 X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . O . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:23 am
by ikkyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . 5 O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought about playing the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . c O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All four are gote. A & C secure territory for myself, B limits the amount of territory white can get on top & D gets rid of bad aji that I've been concerned about since I played B3. However, I chose my move because I feel it's sente for me and I feel that my P11 group might run into problems without an additional black stone there.

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:26 am
by kex
ikkyu wrote: B limits the amount of territory white can get on top


To ikkyu: How does that happen? Please explain.

What happens, if after B white L18?

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:01 pm
by The Intrepid
kex wrote:
ikkyu wrote: B limits the amount of territory white can get on top


To ikkyu: How does that happen? Please explain.

What happens, if after B white L18?

ikkyu won't open your hide tage until after the game, so he won't know about your questin until then. Is this what you had in mind?

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:04 am
by kex
The Intrepid wrote:ikkyu won't open your hide tage until after the game, so he won't know about your questin until then. Is this what you had in mind?


Well... There is some minor potential for affecting the game, so it is hidden. Otherwise it could be open. I am patient enough to wait until the end of the game :)

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:38 pm
by quietimes
So, I'm looking at the board and I'm saying "WTH happened? If I don't get C/D 8, it's over. Well that and penetrate left on 14-15 and reduce.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . 5 O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . 6 O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:30 am
by ikkyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . 7 O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Gote, but secures territory and removed bad aji. It was either this or H18. I'm honestly not sure which is bigger.

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:59 pm
by quietimes
So ill timed, maybe. But it has to be done if I am going to have a stake in this game. I think, anyways. fight it out to make life as the goal


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . 7 O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:38 pm
by ikkyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Alright, ladies and gentlemen. Step right up and place your bets. Can white live here? Has black badly bungled? Are the two large-knights connecting F6, G9, and K8 going to be an achilles heel? What will happen next?

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 pm
by billywoods
ikkyu wrote:Step right up and place your bets.

My bet: white should die with simple solid play from black. That doesn't necessarily mean killing will be easy, of course, but...

ikkyu wrote:Are the two large-knights connecting F6, G9, and K8 going to be an achilles heel?

K8 doesn't desperately need to connect to G9 (it's small anyway, but if you want to keep it, it can also connect to L9). The large knight's move between F6 and G9 is fine - large knight's moves can get cut, but not necessarily profitably, as you're strong both above and below.

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:16 pm
by quietimes
Right so wth was white thinking? right? Well here it is. I read several variations on connecting and tapping the shoulder on B10. I didn't like them and I guess I expect him to expect me to do it. So going high I hope to find a little advantage in surprise and maybe poke the confidence a little. Maybe shake something loose. Next move really depends on what black does. My guess is going to be C10. Dunno. Maybe I'm blowing it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , X . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, my thought is if black goes C10 I will go over him and try to isolate group
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . , X . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . X . . . X O . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . O 7 . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Putting down the bong now.

Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:43 pm
by ikkyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O X . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . X . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . O . . . X O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O . O . . . . . O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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