I think this is the fourth or fifth Malkovich game that was resigned here just for lack of spirit. In this case, why not play F7, for example, or play H7 and exchange the left side for the bottom? It is not like Black was the only one with weaknesses all over the place. This is very frustrating for me.
If you cannot read it out, at least let him show you how he wins before you resign.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:29 pm
by fwiffo
I guess my positional judgment kinda sucks then. I had considered something like this:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe not that exactly ; I haven't read thoroughly. Me looking at this position, I'd say black's gain on the bottom is not enough to make up for death of the rest of the group in the center/left and that the game would be already lost for black. Is this really still playable?
I understand what you're saying about flow and looking at the whole board. I tried to focus on that this game, but I have trouble keeping track of so many things. Just understanding the local variations taxes me completely. For instance, when I was playing F13 I was aiming at the bottom group, but I didn't judge the result of the cut very well.
I actually think if my local reading was better (more efficient, faster), it wouldn't use as much of my focus just to read out local variations and I'd have more space in my brain for looking at the rest of the board.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:49 pm
by Magicwand
fwiffo wrote:I guess my positional judgment kinda sucks then. I had considered something like this:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe not that exactly ; I haven't read thoroughly. Me looking at this position, I'd say black's gain on the bottom is not enough to make up for death of the rest of the group in the center/left and that the game would be already lost for black. Is this really still playable?
I understand what you're saying about flow and looking at the whole board. I tried to focus on that this game, but I have trouble keeping track of so many things. Just understanding the local variations taxes me completely. For instance, when I was playing F13 I was aiming at the bottom group, but I didn't judge the result of the cut very well.
I actually think if my local reading was better (more efficient, faster), it wouldn't use as much of my focus just to read out local variations and I'd have more space in my brain for looking at the rest of the board.
1) not only playable you are winning by too much. i would never take that path. 2) F13 is only a local problem. before your group become that weak you should have attacked me or find a flow that will automatically stablize your group.. if you attack..usually you get stronger and i try to run away.. you dont have to look for tesuji to save your group. that means you dont have any weakness and thick just by attacking me first. 3) although i do above average job on local reading..i believe my power comes from global reading. same with all other stronger players. if i play against 1D i dont have to fight and give him whatever he wants and still win with a comfortable lead. if professionals play me...they can do same thing.. because their global reading is that much better than mine.
my advice to you is...find that FLOW i talk about. not one dimensional moves..but SOLID meaningful SERIES of moves. i mean series of move because if you find that flow...you will see that sequence of moves.
My kids home
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:01 pm
by fwiffo
Hmm. I guess I have some food for thought. Of course, let me know if you want a rematch sometime. I promise not to resign to soon.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:11 pm
by Harleqin
fwiffo wrote:I guess my positional judgment kinda sucks then. I had considered something like this:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe not that exactly ; I haven't read thoroughly. Me looking at this position, I'd say black's gain on the bottom is not enough to make up for death of the rest of the group in the center/left and that the game would be already lost for black. Is this really still playable?
Just count it. The pure territorial exchange is almost even, but the black group has a lot of aji at H11 and D7. White's only territory on the left might be a little bigger than the black on the bottom, but Black has two corners on top of that. Finally, this exchange settles the game, so it becomes harder to catch up for White. I think that White has to play something else, preventing .
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:08 pm
by lightvector
fwiffo wrote:I guess my positional judgment kinda sucks then. I had considered something like this:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . 4 2 O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 X 1 . 5 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe not that exactly ; I haven't read thoroughly. Me looking at this position, I'd say black's gain on the bottom is not enough to make up for death of the rest of the group in the center/left and that the game would be already lost for black. Is this really still playable?
Just some thoughts from an observer: In a Malkovich game, in addition to judging a position by sight, I'd imagine one has time to actually count. I'm not great at counting, but here's my estimate:
Assume the white group dies. Conservatively, let's not count the lower left corner for black due to the bad aji around 3-3. Then black's solid territory is roughly:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . C C O . . . | $$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . X W X X O . | $$ | C C C C X X . . . . . . X X W X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X C | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . C C C | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . C C | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X C C | $$ | . O . . O O O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X X X X . X . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X C C . a . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X W W C W . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X C C C C . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . C X W W C X C X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . C C C X C C C C C C X X . C C C | $$ | . . . C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . C C O . . . | $$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . X W X X O . | $$ | C C C C X X . . . . . . X X W X X O . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . O . X O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X C | $$ | . X . X O X X . . . . . . . . . C C C | $$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . O . X . C C | $$ | O . O . . X O . . . . . . . . . X C C | $$ | . O . . O O O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X X X X . X . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O X C C . a . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X W W C W . X X . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X C C C C . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . C X W W C X C X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . C C C X C C C C C C X X . C C C | $$ | . . . C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black has 76 points marked. There's aji around a, but black can probably hold things intact and keep the white group dead. There is some expansion potential at the top, and the potential to solidify the lower left corner.
There's a little aji in the black group, but assuming it dies, white's territory is roughly:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . C | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O C | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O C | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O C C | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O C C | $$ | . . O . O B . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | C O C B O B . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | C C B O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | C B C B O B B C . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | C O B B B C C . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O C O C C B O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | C O C . O O O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | C C . . X X X X . X . . . . C O O . . | $$ | C C O O O X . . . . . O . O C C C . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O C . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . C | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O C | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . X X O X X O C | $$ | . X X X O . . . . , . . . O X X O C C | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . O C C | $$ | . . O . O B . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | C O C B O B . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | C C B O O O O O . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | C B C B O B B C . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | C O B B B C C . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O C O C C B O . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | C O C . O O O . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | C C . . X X X X . X . . . . C O O . . | $$ | C C O O O X . . . . . O . O C C C . . | $$ | . . X . X O O . O . X X . O C . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . O . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O . X . X X O . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
53 points, with 3 captures, so 56 points. So white is still 20 points behind by an estimate that pessimistically assumes white will take away the lower left corner. Importantly, black is settled everywhere, so if black can hold on to his kill (not unreasonable), and get at least one of the lower left corner and the top side (also not unreasonable), black has excellent chances even considering the strength difference.
Of course, white can deviate at some point and avoid this sequence, starting other complications. But the point is, fearing this position shouldn't be a reason to resign, because this position is *good* for black.
; I haven't read thoroughly. Me looking at this position, I'd say black's gain on the bottom is not enough to make up for death of the rest of the group in the center/left and that the game would be already lost for black. Is this really still playable?
