Life In 19x19

kusto wrote:I may not be able to afford space flight, but i am not about to start critiquing Virgin Galactic's service in any way. Nor would i hold a grudge towards Virgin for not catering to the confines of what i can afford within my lifestyle.

My point being that this isn't a question of affordability or availability, so lets not try to justify the criticism by diverting from the topic at hand.


Logan was not asking for opinions and if you look at the first post i think you would find that it would be a very good candidate for a direct personal message to John himself.

Hi John, I'm wondering if anyone has you have some sample content of John Fairbairn's your new publication of the Shikatsu Myoki? I'm particularly curious about how he you edited and organized the material. Some time ago I considered working on an English version of this book, but there were already good versions in the Asian languages. Thus, to avoid stepping on copyright issues by just publishing the same solutions in the same organization I would have had to artificially change a few diagrams, artificially mix it up, and throw in a few words to make it appear different enough. But that felt insincere and inappropriate. The other direction would have been to ask permission from the original author(s)/publisher(s) to basically reprint it in English (providing them royalties and so on). So I'm wondering how he you did it. Usually he has you have some sources or notes about the texts he you used. Thank-you.

I just don't think it is right to critique and judge the books organization or content until he has read the book.

You raise two issues here.

First you wondered why logan didn't get the book and check it himself. This is where the affordability/willingness part of my answer comes. Simple, easy. Some people don't like or want iPads. Just that, so this could explain why logan can't check it or is not willing to check it directly and prefers to ask other people.

As for the personal message. it depends a lot on who is asking and who should be the private message recipient. In a similar case, I'd probably also ask the forum and not John directly. I value other's people time investment and personal inboxes, and I'd rather get an answer from a forum member willing to answer, who has the time to spare in an answer, than send a personal message that may disturb other's time. More succintly, if I have a question about the design of the go language, I ask on reddit or the mailing list. I don't send a personal message to Rob Pike unless I have already made all possible groundwork first.

First you wondered why logan didn't get the book and check it himself.

Where did i say that i wondered why? Honestly, i couldn't give a flying expletive why he hasn't obtained the book.

I thought that i clearly stated, that i don't understand why he felt the need to critique a book he hasn't read and that i feel he should purchase and read it before being critical of it publicly. (The main point, and the point you seemed to have missed while feeling the need to add your two bits.)

As for the personal message. it depends a lot on who is asking and who should be the private message recipient.

Well Gee, do i have to state that John is the recipient and Logan is asking. You couldn't gather that from my post?

You see i somehow think that John would be quite capable and happy to answer a private message about one of his new books - which is selling after-all.

He hasn't struck me as being anywhere near as unapproachable and emotionally unstable as he has been made out to be. I will quote myself.

Now whether there has been previous bad blood or grievances held by anyone here personally i dont know but i dont think that is for us to go into publicly.

And of course there is always Anders of SmartGo, who would give a fellow go player the shirt off his back if he thought they needed it. So if the question was not asked of John i can only think Anders would be the next best in line to answer any such queries.

Assuming he wouldn't have the time, or wouldn't be happy to answer the questions is quite unfair to John or anyone in that position without at least trying to contact them first (we seem to be forming an overlying pattern here right? before contacting, before reading).

The confusion could have been avoided from the beginning and i think we see that in hindsight. I only hope that similar situations do not present themselves in the near future.


edit: minor spelling mistakes.

Let's leave it here, you didn't get what I was pointing at, and I don't want to fight for someone else's points of view.

RBerenguel wrote:Let's leave it here, you didn't get what I was pointing at, and I don't want to fight for someone else's points of view.

You really have learnt from hindsight.

kusto wrote:You see i somehow think that John would be quite capable and happy to answer a private message about one of his new books - which is selling after-all.

Logan's question could have been answered by other people who had purchased the book via SmartGo. There's no need to send a private message to the author.

kusto wrote:And of course there is always Anders of SmartGo, who would give a fellow go player the shirt off his back if he thought they needed it. So if the question was not asked of John i can only think Anders would be the next best in line to answer any such queries.

Why does Anders even come up here? He wrote the software it is using and is publishing, but Logan had a fairly simple question. He's not asking for shirts.

oren wrote:Logan's question could have been answered by other people who had purchased the book via SmartGo. There's no need to send a private message to the author.

It "could have been" but evidently that didn't happen. Asking someone in direct relation to the publication would have been a much smarter, more accurate and efficient way of gaining the information. Instead Logan comes and posts publicly, stating that at one point HE planned on doing a version of the book but lay pause over fears of regurgitating someone-else work. Then asks for information about what johns version basically accusing him of the same unless proven otherwise. THEN insults him indirectly by saying, there is a better version of this book waiting to be written - when he hasn't read johns version. It sounded an awful lot like a smear against him and his methods before any facts had been presented.

kusto wrote:And of course there is always Anders of SmartGo, who would give a fellow go player the shirt off his back if he thought they needed it. So if the question was not asked of John i can only think Anders would be the next best in line to answer any such queries.

oren wrote:Why does Anders even come up here? He wrote the software it is using and is publishing, but Logan had a fairly simple question. He's not asking for shirts.

Oh i don't know. I mean its not like he is actually interested in selling the book, and has access to all Smartgo books in their entirety or anything, of which he provides customer service for; And as previously mentioned, john usually cites his sources within his books. I can speak from personal interactions with Anders that he is usually happy to answer any questions that arise over books that he offers, and from a customer service aspect i would hardly come to believe that he would be even remotely bothered by the query.

As for the the phrase of giving the shirt off his own back, it isn't to be taken literally and i am sorry for your inability to grasp the difference. As it seems almost impossible for some people to stay focused on the crux of the matter.

I will close by saying that i don't think John was over-reacting, that is my own personal view and i am sticking with it. I don't care if you or anyone else agrees or disagrees with it. I certainly don't care for the little nit picks that you seem to want to place on display. You are of course entitled to your own views but i want John and everyone else who actually contributes solid material to the community to know that it is appreciated and that i would hope we could give their work a fair review only after having read it first.

kusto wrote:

oren wrote:Logan's question could have been answered by other people who had purchased the book via SmartGo. There's no need to send a private message to the author.

It "could have been" but evidently that didn't happen.

ez4u was the first one to answer.

I'm glad he asked the question, and I found the discussion on the book very interesting. If he had just asked privately, a lot of us wouldn't have learned about it. I don't think logan tried to be controversial, and it's a bit silly that an interesting thread became so offtopic.

If logan translates his own version of the same 1910 version of the Japanese book, why would it conflict with copyright issues? It's not like logan is copying JF's translation. And if he follows the original organization of the problems, there is no conflict either because the original book is no longer under copyright.

The only thing is whether logan would actually profit from making a new version as JF has quite a lot of credentials for such works whereas I am not aware of logan having authored/translated go books published for sale previously.

If logan however decides to publish such a work as a free publication for the good of the community, that would be something we would all look forward to

oren wrote:ez4u was the first one to answer.

Well yes, with a line that Logan could have read from one of his own links that he posted.

ez4u wrote:JF translated the original 1910 edition.

http://gobooks.com/books.html

Wonders of Life & Death
Honinbo Shusai's tsumego classic Shikatsu Myoki
by Honinbo Shusai
Presented by John Fairbairn

The full 1910 edition of Honinbo Shusai's minor tsumego classic Shikatsu Myoki, with an introduction by the editor. It includes 120 problems (with solutions), most original and many taxing and ingenious.

$9.99 120 problems

It hardly answers his question, beyond what he had already available to him, now does it.


I agree with tchan001, in fact i am certain most people would be interested to see how this "better version" would read if Logan ever decided to write it.

kusto wrote:I agree with tchan001, in fact i am certain most people would be interested to see how this "better version" would read if Logan ever decided to write it.

Fortunately you don't have to wonder; here are two such Asian versions of the Shikatsu Myoki. Both can still be found to purchase after only a small amount of Googling.

• 死活妙机 (1990; ISBN: 9787534801044)
• 围棋死活妙机 (2008; ISBN: 9787807058335)

As for a direct translation of the 1910 edition into English, John has already published, perhaps, the best version of that.

tchan001 wrote:If logan however decides to publish such a work as a free publication for the good of the community, that would be something we would all look forward to

I already added the entire collection to Sensei's Library a year and a half ago. I also made a thread about it around the same time. It keeps with the updated organization of some of the Asian versions, but doesn't include any of their additional failure/variation diagrams or text.

logan wrote:Fortunately you don't have to wonder; here are two such Asian versions of the Shikatsu Myoki. Both can still be found to purchase after only a small amount of Googling.

• 死活妙机 (1990; ISBN: 9787534801044)
• 围棋死活妙机 (2008; ISBN: 9787807058335)

Any idea how it compares to this one?

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%AD%BB%E6%B4 ... 9%E6%A9%9F

I think I have the 1981 one at home by the same authors.

logan wrote:Fortunately you don't have to wonder; here are two such Asian versions of the Shikatsu Myoki.

Unfortunately no, i still have to wonder. You see they aren't in English, which is the whole purpose of a translation in first place. Your expectations of comparing a close to verbatim translation to other books containing discussions and additional commentary is hardly fair when it was never claimed to include such material.

logan wrote:As for a direct translation of the 1910 edition into English, John has already published, perhaps, the best version of that.

Well as far as i know (if i am wrong i apologize), it is the ONLY published English version, therefore it is the best version that has been Translated into English. Maybe someone else in the future will put in the time to produce a better version, but until that happens his is it.

logan wrote:I already added the entire collection to Sensei's Library a year and a half ago. I also made a thread about it around the same time. It keeps with the updated organization of some of the Asian versions, but doesn't include any of their additional failure/variation diagrams or text.

Now i understand that you may feel a little left out, perhaps even a little encroached upon because of your entry on Sensei's. Well i can only say that i commend your contribution to the site as it would not be anywhere near as wonderful of a resource if it didn't have people such as yourself contributing to it; i have no doubt it has been quite valuable to a lot of people over that time and will continue to be. But honestly, if you want to, or wanted to release a book that goes above and beyond, one that includes the material you are talking about, then i am sure i speak for us all when i say it would be more than welcomed.

There is really nothing stopping you from doing your own translation of the book/collection (besides a possible lack of return monetarily). But publicly proclaiming that you "would" have and "could" have translated a release in English if only it weren't for all of the considerations you stated, is quite frankly demeaning toward John who has actually released something. If you decide to release a book, in whatever form, the community will be more than happy to read it and its wonderful new additions if and when it arrives.

I put up all the problems from the 3rd volume of Gokyo Seimyo on SL a while ago and I would never say that I plan to make an English translation of the book just because I did that. To me putting it on SL doesn't mean I'm planning to author or translate a book.

oren wrote:

logan wrote:Fortunately you don't have to wonder; here are two such Asian versions of the Shikatsu Myoki. Both can still be found to purchase after only a small amount of Googling.

• 死活妙机 (1990; ISBN: 9787534801044)
• 围棋死活妙机 (2008; ISBN: 9787807058335)

Any idea how it compares to this one?

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%AD%BB%E6%B4 ... 9%E6%A9%9F

I think I have the 1981 one at home by the same authors.

The one you linked to is a revision of the 1981 version. Likewise it's reorganized into four parts, with additional variations and commentary.

tchan001 wrote:I put up all the problems from the 3rd volume of Gokyo Seimyo on SL a while ago and I would never say that I plan to make an English translation of the book just because I did that. To me putting it on SL doesn't mean I'm planning to author or translate a book.

Correct, I too never planned on writing an equivalent book.