Life In 19x19

happysocks wrote:...What difference does it make whether we are applying our bodies or minds to work in a chosen discipline? ...

The word we use to accurately and clearly describe it. I don't see why the word sport is so wonderful and all activities should aspire to be called sports*.

*Oh that money thing... But sport has bad things too like WADA.

happysocks wrote:Also, have never really understood peoples resistance to seeing mind sport as sport. What difference does it make whether we are applying our bodies or minds to work in a chosen discipline? The opportunities for dedication, excellence, failure, inspiration are all there either way.

Is mathematics a sport?
All the qualities you list are present, and it can be pretty competitive as well.

It depends on the definition of what is a "sport."
I we take a definition which includes anything resembling "physical activity" then neither go nor chess nor bridge are sports. But of course we can use other definitions, even make up our own one - so that we can make sure that it, for example, includes Go but not renju, or chess but not checkers, or whatever. I think it is pretty meaningless.

Like Uberdude says - I am not sure what is so desirable about being called "sport" and bunched with stuff like dressage or synchronized swimming. Sure, there is the better opportunity for any kind of official support, but...

Personally I think it better to try establishing another category ("mind competition" maybe, or however we want to call it) which includes go, chess, bridge, and all other mind games we want. And then we can lobby for it to reach similar status as "sport" wrt. any kind of state support. So it is not really about trying to plug Go into a specific category just to get some monies. I think it should be about making people and governments recognize the good value in such mental activities, just like they recognize good values in physical activities like the various sports.

Subotai wrote:Xiang Qi and Sho Gi may be more popular to the masses, but that has always been true just as checkers and dominos are probably more popular than chess. Go is the game for intellectuals and the refined. Whether in the East or West your ask which game is more respected it is always the game of the intellectual. The noble arts of a gentleman included go not xiang qi. Benjamin Franklin wrote a treatise on the virtues of chess not checkers.

The philosopher Mendelssohn once said that he gave up playing chess because it was too serious to be a game, but not serious enough to be an occupation.

EdLee wrote:...

Related: Why do we play games?

Ed, thanks for this link!

TheBigH wrote:The philosopher Mendelssohn once said that he gave up playing chess because it was too serious to be a game, but not serious enough to be an occupation.

Do you mean Moses Mendelssohn.
Indeed, many people are experts at finding excuses.

Anyone knows when professional chess became viable ?
( And much later than professional Go in Japan or China ? )

Are we all just silly people to spend so much time on a board game?

Go is so beautiful though. It is like painting a picture with your brain: calculations, style, shape, personality all come to life on the go board.

To say that go is a waste of time is like saying painting or music is a waste of time. Today I reviewed a game from 1954, a game that took place over 30 years before I was born and by replaying that game I painted the picture that these two players made. That conversation they made with those stones is something to be respected.

Is there anything more worthwhile than clicking those stones on that wooden board in a beautiful garden?

Sport, art, board game or what ever you want to call it, go is one of the finer things in life.

EdLee wrote:

TheBigH wrote:
Anyone knows when professional chess became viable ?
( And much later than professional Go in Japan or China ? )

That depends on the definition of viable.

Sponsors were there quite early, pretty much since the beginning some arab sultans payed people to play matches for them to enjoy.

I think living of just playing was rather late (earlie 1900 maybe?). I know for sure that the strongest player before the first World Champion (Steinitz) was mainly a maths teacher and a chess player second.

Even today just playing does not support a lof of players and they have to resort to teaching/publishing or other means.

For those interested:
http://www.chess.com/article/view/making-money-in-chess

I wonder how "sport" is defined in different languages. Not being a native English speaker I looked up the Oxford dictionary (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... rt?q=sport): "An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment". Some other dictionaries refer more to general activities with "esp involving physical exercise". In my Finnish dictionary the physical side is also emphasized, but sports involving animals or motorized vehicles are mentioned; mind games are not. I believe in many languages the term is mostly associated with physical activities.

tj86430 wrote:I wonder how "sport" is defined in different languages. Not being a native English speaker I looked up the Oxford dictionary (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... rt?q=sport): "An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment". Some other dictionaries refer more to general activities with "esp involving physical exercise". In my Finnish dictionary the physical side is also emphasized, but sports involving animals or motorized vehicles are mentioned; mind games are not. I believe in many languages the term is mostly associated with physical activities.

I remember reading in (title may vary) Illustrated Dictionary of Chess how (IIRC) Karpov lost something like 8kg during a world title match due to stress. I would qualify this as "physical exertion." I agree that in most languages it is connected with real, strong physical movement, but we should not deny the effect mind games have in the body (or how a fit body affects mind games.)

Go at the 2010 Asian Games
Go at the 2013 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Asian_Games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_at_the_ ... Arts_Games

RBerenguel wrote:

tj86430 wrote:I wonder how "sport" is defined in different languages. Not being a native English speaker I looked up the Oxford dictionary (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... rt?q=sport): "An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment". Some other dictionaries refer more to general activities with "esp involving physical exercise". In my Finnish dictionary the physical side is also emphasized, but sports involving animals or motorized vehicles are mentioned; mind games are not. I believe in many languages the term is mostly associated with physical activities.

I remember reading in (title may vary) Illustrated Dictionary of Chess how (IIRC) Karpov lost something like 8kg during a world title match due to stress. I would qualify this as "physical exertion." I agree that in most languages it is connected with real, strong physical movement, but we should not deny the effect mind games have in the body (or how a fit body affects mind games.)

Does the term mentally exhausted mean anything if you're trying to talk about "physical exertion"? You could go an entire day without doing much strenuous exercise and still be exhausted. From my non-knowledge of biology, doesn't the brain use up the most of our energy?

Abyssinica wrote:From my non-knowledge of biology, doesn't the brain use up the most of our energy?

No, though it is the most energy hungry organ using around one fifth of your base metabolic rate. Physical exercise uses a lot more.