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Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:51 am
by siowy
$$c Move 13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 13
$$c Move 13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 13
I want to separate his a and b groups, so that a will be weaker. As long as a is weaker, he will not be able to invade my moyo c so comfortably.
If he kicks me out of the corner with d, my shape is still fine. If not, later I can still go into sansan, which lives in the corner, from my reading(or at worst ko to live).
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:24 am
by cobrahc
$$c Move 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 14
I'm trying lean on his black stones to push it to the right side. This way the white group on the lower center may also use that to put pressure on the bottom center black stone.
Maybe 'a,b or c' was a better option for white, that could accomplish the same thing and also make it harder for black to invade the left side. But I saw some forcing moves that could make black stronger on the center.
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$
Will he keep going to the center? Maybe a knight's jump?
Like this, after
he may want to do something like
to put pressure on the left side?
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$
Maybe he will just invade the left side and use it to help his stones to attack the white group.
Maybe he will try to separate my 2 groups directly.
Lets see how he wants to play it.
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:23 pm
by siowy
$$c Move 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 14
His shape seems weird here to me. I feel like I can play a good sequence in the LL, but I don't want to play wrongly and make it heavy, which would hurt my moyo because I might have to run a heavy group.
So I'll just tenuki and expand the right side moyo. I can still make life/ko in the corner for now. It's too slow for him to kick at x, and probably overconcentrated too.
$$c Move 14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 14
I also considered jumping up to y or z, to threaten to connect out the pincered group, and strengthen the triangled stone against a possible pincer, but I'd rather not play 'flying' stones too early, and the point at the upper side is very big.
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:33 pm
by cobrahc
$$c Move 16
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 16
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:55 pm
by siowy
$$c Move 16
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 16
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:23 pm
by Loons
I find it hard to point to white's mistakes this game.
$$c This is a board I would avoid as white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c This is a board I would avoid as white.
'c' was my instinct (and comes third out of the ~12 games in my slightly dated database).
I find it hard to call 'o' a mistake, but it may be said it's a little myopic. Bottom left was quite settled. Similarly 's' before a move like 'x' seems sub par. White has played too much on the left side of the board (without getting the left extension yet).
Perhaps if white can start an attack...
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 am
by skydyr
Loons wrote:
I find it hard to point to white's mistakes this game.
$$c This is a board I would avoid as white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c This is a board I would avoid as white.
'c' was my instinct (and comes third out of the ~12 games in my slightly dated database).
I find it hard to call 'o' a mistake, but it may be said it's a little myopic. Bottom left was quite settled. Similarly 's' before a move like 'x' seems sub par. White has played too much on the left side of the board (without getting the left extension yet).
Perhaps if white can start an attack...
I don't like that board position either. I'm inclined to think that white should have played more actively for
, perhaps with some sort of loose or high pincer, to break up black's potential on the top, and try to hold on to sente to prevent black getting q10. With C6 low, I'm not sure that the left side is the biggest place to play.
$$c This is still a nice big label for the diagram.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c This is still a nice big label for the diagram.
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:59 pm
by cobrahc
$$c Move 18
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 18
I just realized that my last move at e17 was bad. It not only made the black stone stronger, but also reduced my chance to do anything in that region, like `a` or `b`.
In addition, I think white can still invade at `c` and live.
$$
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I didnt want to approach the bottom right, since I dont want to make the black stronger at the bottom, so I decided to approach the top/right.
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:54 pm
by siowy
$$c Move 18
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 18
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:06 pm
by cobrahc
$$c Move 20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 20
I really want to see where he plays next.
With `a` he makes the top and top/right side stronger.
I think `b` helps white to run to the center and force some answer from black on the top side later.
Since his corner (T/R) and my corner (T/L) looks similar.. i will take a look how a 3x3 invasion (and any other shenanigans) can go through.
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:24 pm
by siowy
$$c Move 21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 21
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:44 am
by skydyr
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:25 am
by cobrahc
$$c Move 22
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 22
I've check different approaches to this play (from `a` to `e` in the board below) and I didnt like most of them.
If I play at `a`: Black could force white to live small on the side while getting stronger and influence to the center.
`b`: Black could separate the stone from the other white group.
`c`: If black separate them, I will have 2 weak groups. Dont want that.
`d` and `e`: Didnt want to black to squeeze white to fortify his groups.
I wonder if I will feel the same about those options later on, after this game.
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:49 am
by siowy
$$c Move 23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 23
$$c Move 23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 23
Shape-wise, I have only two choices, hane at x or descend to y. I briefly considered hane above at z, but if white plays at y, he has too much eyespace for my liking. My goal here is to maintain good shape, allow him no more than one eye, and force him to run his group out.
If I descend to y, I expect him to descend also. In that case, I will have to decide between hane and extend upwards. Hane seems reasonable but I've been told by someone stronger than it's a little too aggressive. Extend seems fine. It's also possible that he could hane above if I descend, but it looks okay if I just play it out like below.
$$c Move 23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 23
If I hane at x, I expect him to follow hane and then the below variation looks good for me. He would be very cramped.
$$c Move 23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 23
I decide to go with the hane.
Re: #242 : siowy vs cobrahc
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:57 pm
by cobrahc
$$c Move 24
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Move 24
he may want to do something like 
to put pressure on the left side?
, perhaps with some sort of loose or high pincer, to break up black's potential on the top, and try to hold on to sente to prevent black getting q10. With C6 low, I'm not sure that the left side is the biggest place to play.