Food stuff

[Gresil]

Misleading anecdotes. The inuit have traditionally had a very good reason to not eat grain but unhealthiness isn't it.

[daniel_the_smith]

I don't understand how that was misleading. Grains were not available to the Inuit until very very recently, and the Inuit were a healthy culture ~100 years ago, if you believe the contemporary reports. Therefore grains are not necessary to be healthy.

[tealeaf]

... all ate as much meat and fat as they could get.

Surely that's because they are high-energy foods and people couldn't afford to let a short-term abundance go to waste? It doesn't imply that eating as much meat and fat as you can get is healthy. It also seems a very weak argument that we should do something just because that's what (some vaguely defined understanding of) humanity has always done; as has been pointed out, there wasn't some halcyon period one million years ago where everyone grew up strong and healthy and lived vigorous lives until they were ninety. There are also plenty of examples of local adaptation to environmental factors that need to be taken into account for situations like the Inuit.

Also, based on the argument I've seen in this thread, any true "paleolithic" diet would probably require you to have long fasting periods, or periods of poor nutrition, interspersed with brief periods where you gorged yourself. You'd also probably require a very high activity lifestyle. I suppose that you'd also want to be cutting out cheese and milk products, as the human adaptation for lactose-tolerance in adults is quite recent.

I'd also question what "healthy" means in this context. It can mean "I'll live a long time", or "I'm not morbidly obese". (Having said that, I did see some recent research that showed that you can be both obese and fit, with the health risk being a lack of activity rather than the fatness itself.)

That's speaking as a vegetarian who lives on beans and pulses, and does a fairly high amount of aerobic exercise.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that the justifications I've often seen associated with this dieting model are typically very weak, and are backed up by small-scale studies that go against a lot of the scientific literature. (Again, going against the scientific literature doesn't make something intrinsically wrong, it just adds an extra burden of proof and rigour on the person making the claim.)

Anyway... to answer GoCat, I'd offer two ideas for good vegetarian meals that should satisfy: dal with rice, and vegetable (or mushroom) risotto or paella. Chickpeas are a good source of experimentation as well -- you can make an amazing salad just by boiling them up, adding a few spices and spring onions, some lemon juice and perhaps a dash of olive oil if you can allow that.

/T

[daniel_the_smith]

Also, based on the argument I've seen in this thread, any true "paleolithic" diet would probably require you to have long fasting periods, or periods of poor nutrition, interspersed with brief periods where you gorged yourself. You'd also probably require a very high activity lifestyle. I suppose that you'd also want to be cutting out cheese and milk products, as the human adaptation for lactose-tolerance in adults is quite recent.

Some of this is correct. I usually eat only two meals a day, for example (which would have been unthinkable before I switched my diet because I was hungry all the time). Really strict paleos do indeed cut out milk products, but most of us don't find it necessary-- actually cream (I'm somewhat lactose intolerant) and cheese are important parts of my diet.

There are rebuttals to some of the other things you said, but I've bored people enough, I'm sure (and I have other things to do)-- if you really want to know, I think I left enough links in my first post to follow it down the rabbit hole.

PS if I were going to be a vegetarian, I would eat as much Indian food as possible. Naan and daals are wonderful. Muttar Paneer (peas and cheese) is my favorite Indian dish.

[Chew Terr]

I agree, Indian food like Naan and paneer are great. I've never had dal, but really want to try it after hearing the reviews here and looking at it on wikipedia. This sort of thing is why I would always have a hard time with any genre-restrictive diet. I understand 'eat less' or 'eat more of x, y, and z', but I love variety of delicious food too much to stick with anything that restricted it. For example, not being able to eat cheese, meat, and such. The only reason I would consider something like that is for ethical reasons (like vegetarianism), and I just don't think I'm ethically motivated enough or have enough willpower to do something like that.

Perhaps I'll try something with chickpeas, tealeaf. That sounds delicious.

edit: Sorry, I know this is a tangent from the cooking thread. However, while I enjoy cooking, I'm much better at appreciating food than cooking it. =D

[wossname]

nobody else has heard of a protein/fat/carb macro ratio?

[Loons]

Hey, chef, I have a bunch of quinoa of varying colors. What should I do with it ?


I'm afraid I don't have access to Paleolithic vs. modern diets--selected pathophysiological implications. by SB Eaton and SB Eaton Which seems to be the crux paper for that movement. Can someone throw me a few interesting, sourced %s regarding paleolithic diets regarding non-obese/old demographics?

Personally, I've tried to substitute honey for (table)sugar wherever possible, following some experiments with rats I didn't actually follow closely.


Edit: NZ Monofloral honeys are pretty exciting, but more expensive than you'd possibly believe.

[DrStraw]

I found all this stuff almost a year ago and changed my diet accordingly. The term for it is the "paleolithic diet" and the idea is to eat the things our species evolved to eat, and not modern innovations associated with society's current health issues. Practically, this means to stop eating 1. wheat, 2. sugar (and high-fructose corn syrup, etc), and 3. modern oils (corn, safflower, cottonseed, peanut, etc). The best how-to list I know of is here. I feel better, sleep better, and my teeth (gums, rather-- I've never had a cavity) are better. Just dropping wheat had a noticeable effect.

I, an to an even greater extent my wife, know a lot about food and diet. And one of the biggest conclusions we have come to over the years is that there is no one diet which fits all. It doesn't matter what diet you take, you can always find some people who do well on it and some who do not. I am familiar with the paleolithic diet and I know I would not do well on it, but clearly you do.

Another example can be taken straight from my own family. We are all vegetarian and I do really well on the diet. In fact, the closer to vegan I eat the healthier I feel. My wife, on the other hand, is vegetarian strictly for ethical reasons (I am only partially so) and she do not do well on such a diet. We both feel she would do better on a meat diet but she cannot bring herself to eat it.

There are all sorts of people in the world and as a result there are all sorts of diets. People who try to convert others to their own favorite, convinced it will be good for them, may actually be doing a disservice. While I think that a vegetarian diet is good for a lot of people and, in my opinion, it is certainly good for the planet, I never try to convert people. I do encourage them to try it though. In the same way, there is nothing wrong with telling people about your diet, but to try to convince them it is right for them is wrong. Let them try it and find out for themselves.

[daniel_the_smith]

Let them try it and find out for themselves.

I absolutely agree with you; I'm sorry if you found my post too preachy, it really was just meant to be informative. Others may do as they wish, of course! But I reserve the right to believe what I believe emphatically.

Secretly, I'm glad most people react with horror to my diet; it keeps the prices on cream and butter down.

(Why do I feel like I'm channeling helel?)

[DrStraw]

Let them try it and find out for themselves.

I absolutely agree with you; I'm sorry if you found my post too preachy, it really was just meant to be informative. Others may do as they wish, of course! But I reserve the right to believe what I believe emphatically.

Secretly, I'm glad most people react with horror to my diet; it keeps the prices on cream and butter down.

(Why do I feel like I'm channeling helel?)

I didn't think of it as preaching. More like untempered enthusiasm. I was just trying to give a balanced point of view.

[HermanHiddema]

Okay... here's a general question, although not sure I expect a real answer. In my family, my daughter is vegetarian, my wife is gluten-intolerant, and I've just been told to cut my fat intake. Meal suggestions welcome!!

I'll skip the whole diet discussion and stick to my own, which is called "Eat what you like, but don't overdo it"

Anyway, I'm no professional when it comes to food, but I like to cook, so I thought I'd share a recipe I like:

Ingredients:

500g curly kale, chopped (I usually get this from the freezer)
4 tomatoes
500g mashed potatoes
100g cream cheese
100g grated cheese (I usually use Gouda)

Preparation:
- Preheat oven to 180°C
- Cook curly kale until done (from the freezer: until it boils), stir cream cheese through it
- Slice tomatoes
- Put creamy curly kale in an oven dish
- Put a layer of sliced tomatoes on top
- Put a layer mashed potatoes on top
- Sprinkle grated cheese over it all

Put in the oven for about 20 minutes.

Vegetarian and gluten-free, and very easy and quick to make, and it's delicious too

The cheese is rather fat though, so I guess you'd have to replace it with low fat variants (goat's cheese or mozzarella, perhaps?) or leave it out.

[Peter Hansmeier]

Does anyone have suggestions for grilling for vegetarians? We will have no picky eaters (aside from the meat thing) or obscure dietary requirements. We will be using a standard charcoal grill. We like spicy food, but the food does not need to be spicy. Thanks!

[TominNJ]

Alright, I've got a food question. I want to start cooking chili for myself because you can make a bunch at once and then have meals for weeks. I'm looking for a good, simple recipe.

I'll be glad to share my bachelor (bachelor = quick and easy) chili recipe:

brown 1 lb ground beef (you can use cut up steak, ground turkey or some other meat instead)

add one can diced tomatoes (with jalepenos if you like it spicy, mild green chiles if you don't))

add one can pinto beans (you can use the chili beans if you want - they're pinto beans with some chili flavoring) I prefer pinto beans to kidney

add one packet of chili mix - I use the low sodium ones

secret ingredient - one jar of salsa (medium strength for spicy - mild for those with more sensitive palates)

stir it all together, and let it simmer (add water as needed for consistency) then eat it as is, over rice or over pasta (shells are good for this)

Please be warned that you should never ever serve this to anyone from Texas. If you do, you'll hear a half hour lecture about the sacrilege of putting beans in chili.

[Chew Terr]

Does anyone have suggestions for grilling for vegetarians? We will have no picky eaters (aside from the meat thing) or obscure dietary requirements. We will be using a standard charcoal grill. We like spicy food, but the food does not need to be spicy. Thanks!

I'm not at all fancy, cooking-wise, but grilling is fun. Not long ago, I grilled shish kebabs for a group that included a vegetarian, and simply made vegetable-only skewers for her (keeping them separate). Squash, onions, eggplant, mushrooms, that sort of thing. I have also had good luck with zucchini in butter, served with lemon juice, black pepper, and feta cheese on top. When I do shish kebabs, I like to use a sauce made from yogurt, some mint, grated cucumber, and a bit of lemon juice. I could be remembering the ingredients wrong (I don't have the recipe on me), but that's probably close enough to taste right.

[TominNJ]

Does anyone have suggestions for grilling for vegetarians? We will have no picky eaters (aside from the meat thing) or obscure dietary requirements. We will be using a standard charcoal grill. We like spicy food, but the food does not need to be spicy. Thanks!

I liked every Weber recipe I ever tried. They have some vegetable recipes on their website:

http://www.weber.com/grillout/Default.aspx?category=7