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#244 Bill vs Ed

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=11002

Page 2 of 22

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:48 am
by Bill Spight
Here are two ways to do it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . X O . . . X . . 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:49 am
by EdLee
Hi Bill A.,
The move numbers are limited to only one digit in a diagram,
and the "10th" move is denoted by the digit zero.
Starting from move 11, we use the letter 'm' on the first line
to denote the "starting" move number -- is :b10: correct ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
In Bill's first diagram, he used '0' to show :b10: .
In his second diagram, he specified 'm10' as the starting move number, and this time '1' displays :b10: .

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:03 pm
by EdLee
Hi Aidoneus,
You can "quote" my diagrams (or your own) to make a new move or diagram.
In all my subsequent diagrams, I specify exactly the current move number,
-- :w11: here, with 'Wm11' in the diagram header --
and use '1' in the diagram.
(But there are multiple ways to achieve the same diagram :) ):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:13 pm
by Aidoneus
I have been copying Bill's boards to include the coordinates. Would you rather we leave them off? I know I will get more confused without them!

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:19 pm
by Aidoneus
Let's see how this displays. Preview looks OK, so thanks for the tutorials guys!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Here goes my second corner. Two more to go. :roll:

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:47 pm
by paK0
As much as I enjoy the dan vs dan Malkovich games, this is pretty cool too, only 10 moves played and you can already learn something =)

Can someone enlighten me about :w11:? I thought it was normal to wait for a double enclosure to jump into the 3-3

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:21 pm
by EdLee
Aidoneus wrote:to include the coordinates. Would you rather we leave them off? I know I will get more confused without them!
Hi Aidoneus,
I like the clean look; and you're free to do whatever you like with your diagrams. :)
I also don't see why you would be confused, as there are no coordinates on a real board. :mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm13
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:58 pm
by skydyr
paK0 wrote:
As much as I enjoy the dan vs dan Malkovich games, this is pretty cool too, only 10 moves played and you can already learn something =)

Can someone enlighten me about :w11:? I thought it was normal to wait for a double enclosure to jump into the 3-3
When you're playing a high-handicap game as white, you can't always afford to play the proper move because you're too far behind. This is an invasion into a corner enclosure, and the basic strategy is probably something on the lines of "I take the territory, then I live big in the center. No territory for you!" Don't do this normally. Also, attaching to the right of the star point is perhaps more common with this enclosure than the direct 3-3 invasion, but it depends on white's goals. The 2-4 and 2-5 can also be quite valid, making more of a miai between the corner and side.

That said, you're thinking of a double-wing formation, as when black has both star points on the sides adjacent. This is actually later than that here, as black also has the ogeima extension.

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:54 am
by hyperpape
I would suggest that you don't your opponent for the board, or you'll end up seeing his hidden comments when he makes them. I have made that mistake before.
Ed is a better player than me, so take this with a grain of salt, but it feels like White's plays in both corners are encouraging black to settle easily, and that's your enemy as White in a handicap game.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:12 am
by EdLee
hyperpape, good advice for Aidoneus.
I'm careful not to have any hidden tags (so far) in the same post with a new move,
so they're all safe to be quoted.

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:34 pm
by Aidoneus
Sorry for the long delay. My power was just restored; it was a long, cold, dark, night--much worse than the long, dark, tea time of the soul. I apologize in advance for my next delay, as I am now behind with my school work and may not get back here for several hours. I'll post a picture in my journal of why I had no heat in my car, though. :oops:

Unless it really bothers you, I'm going to include board coordinates to make it easier for my comments.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm14
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X . 1 O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
It's about 50 F in my house--warming up slowly from the sun and now heat! My fingers are cold and I'm looking forward to making something hot in my microwave, so I'm just going to make a natural move at P3. No other move crosses my mind since I have a stone at N3 already.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:59 pm
by EdLee
Sorry to hear about your power situation -- hope you had enough blankets to stay warm overnight.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm15
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:42 pm
by Aidoneus
Blankets plus clothes! It was a three dog night. Fortunately, I have three dogs. ;-) I'll be up for another hour or so, otherwise I'll look tomorrow morning to see how you've punished my play! :D
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This was the move, O2, that I had planned against P2. I'm not sure now, though, as White might cut, force me to make an empty triangle, and give up the corner stones in exchange for outside influence. I also considered B3 to dig White out of the bottom-left corner (maybe), but I figured this bottom/corner is more urgent to stabilize. After the game, I guess I'll see how ridiculous my thought process has been. :cool:

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:59 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm17
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . 1 X X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #244 Bill vs Ed

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:32 pm
by Aidoneus
Yeah, that was the dastardly move I feared. Now I have to make the dreaded empty triangle. Oh the shame, oh the shame. :oops:

Take your time as I'm off to rendezvous with my wife in a nice warm bed.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . X . . X 1 X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
So, now, does White extend or protect the corner. My guess is extend and try to get outside influence.
All times are UTC-07:00
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